|Let's just say a little prayer for this podcast, Dear Podcast Gods, please forgive the sins we've committed over the last half hour and let this episode actually make it to air. Amen. Amen. It seems, Breedy, that Trafalgar Square is doubling down on their policy of no fun. Big time. I was there the other day. And you know how you're not allowed on the lines and you said there was like some guard. Right. Well, now the whole lion area at the bottom of Nelson's column had like this like black and yellow crime scene-esque tape around it. So you couldn't even get to it in touching distance of the lines. You had a lone climb on them. It was like all quarantined. There was no water in the fountains. So there was no fun to be had in the fountains. Seriously, it was crazy. It was the least fun place in all of the UK, except when you talked about Trafalgar Square and you were missing it and you were quite right to be missing it. You did leave out Nelson's column itself, which I think is one of the great sites of London. And that is still a reason to go to Trafalgar Square. And I do still love that. I guess, but it doesn't help that Nelson's column is now in the center of this no fun zone. And on one side, you have Trafalgar Square which used to be fun. And on the other side, you just have a massive traffic intersection. It needs a reason to be a fun place to go. But you sent me this photograph of the square crime seen off. It is hard to express how enraged that made me. Because the thing I was aware of when I was there the first time and saw those signs about, don't climb on the lions. The thing that a bunch of people were doing, which the guards seemed totally OK on, is there's two positions to photograph yourself with the lions at Trafalgar Square. There is the risky one for the adventurous types, which is to climb up onto the actual back of the lion and get a photograph there. But lots of families take a kind of classic Trafalgar Square photo, which is a dad will raise up their kids onto the paws of the lion. So there's this relatively low area between the two paws of each of the lions. And every family loves to pack their kids in between the paws and take photographs of that. It's a super cute photo, right? It's great. And it seemed like that was OK with the guards. They weren't stopping anybody from doing that. It was just going on the back to the lions. But now, like you said, they've put this tape around the whole thing so that you can't touch the lions. You certainly can't put people between the paws of the lions. It's unbelievable. And it makes me so angry. I don't know. Well, before you go off on one, there are two possible explanations for this that have come to mind. The first and the one that I hope is true. But is by far the least likely. Is that in a hala-wintonet Wikipedia style lockdown moment, the sheer act of us talking about a topic has caused such nuisance making by Tim's that the authorities have had no choice but to essentially lock down the lions, which would amuse me no end. But clearly is not the case. The second and more likely scenario is that some kind of work is going on, some kind of preparation. Maybe they were having to do something to concrete up above. And they didn't want things falling down onto people from Lord Nelson or they were prepping something. I mean, the fact the fountains at empty as well tells me that maybe they're doing their once or twice a year spring clean. So I think the most likely scenario is that this was a temporary measure. But nevertheless, it would be fun if it was like a Wikipedia style page lockdown that we'd caused. Again, we would never promote Wikipedia vandalism. That's the wrong thing to do. And of course, we would never promote social disobedience on this podcast. That would be wrong to do, to promote people to go and sit on the backs of the lions, to retweet people doing that kind of thing. That would be wrong on many levels. Neither of us would ever do such a thing. And as we've said, the perfect storm of the two is to go into the Wikipedia page for Trafalgar Square and fill it with photos of it sitting on the lines. We would never encourage that. But I'm always suspicious about this because my personal experience with bureaucracies and this kind of structure is there's like a crankshift that only turns in one direction. And the direction that it turns is more regulations, more rules and less fun. And that it's essentially impossible to turn that back in the other direction. And so even if this is for building works, let's say, let's say is the best case scenario that go, we just wanted to polish up the lions, right? I can still imagine them thinking after a little bit like, hey, you know what, this square is way easier to manage once we wall off the whole central column. Like now we don't have to worry about anything. And then some lawyer would say, hey, you know what? Now you don't have to worry about people climbing up on Nelson's column, not even on the lions. There's just like a stair step thing that you can climb up on. Why don't we just leave it up? It's already been up for a couple of weeks and everything's been fine. So that's my fear. It's like I can just feel the machinery of desaturating the world, turning another tick here. That's my worry. My favorite example of fun being taken away because of safety, won't mean a tremendous amount to you because you have no idea how the game of Australian rules football works. But you know it's like an oblong like egg-shaped bowl that people kick and catch and do things like that with. And it was a great tradition at Australian rules football games that at the end of the game when the final siren went and after the players had left the field, they would sound the siren again about five or ten minutes later. And everyone could run out onto the field with the bowls they'd brought along themselves and like just to run around on the field and kick the bowl and you could like try and kick for the goals and pretend to be a hero and kick the ball through the goals that your hero's had just been doing. Wow, that sounds great. It was great fun. And you'd have two or three thousand people all over the field. Each having their own little games kicking it back and forward the probability of walking off that field without getting hit in the face by a football was virtually zero. Of course. You'd guarantee that at least once you would get hit by a bowl you didn't see coming because it was just like a frenzy of bowls in the air. But it was so much fun. You'd line up the goals and try and kick a goal from an angle you just saw your hero's doing it. And then eventually so many people were complaining about getting hurt by getting hit by bowls in the head or like twisting their ankle. Eventually they banned it and went away. And it was one of the great quaint traditions of Australian sport that all the kids were allowed to do this after a big professional game of sport. But gone now. Gone to the professionalism and health and safety gone mad, I tell you. It's not even health and safety gone mad. It's there's a certain kind of I think undo weight that boredom and seriousness and safety always have in conversations because it ends up being really hard to argue for the intangible values like fun over the tangible thing like someone could hurt themselves. No matter how small the probability of someone could hurt themselves or a thing could be dangerous is, it's like I feel like any possibility of that in all conversations, in organizations around anything like it. It's always biased toward this direction. That's why I find it really frustrating. Now it's a long time ago, but I was always hugely frustrated when I was a teacher to discover how many of the things that I thought were awesome cool fun things that my teachers had done when I was a kid in the science lab were totally off limits. They're like, we can't do any of that. Are you crazy? You can't have a kid touch a vandegraph generator. What if they have a hard condition we don't know about? And it's like has this ever happened in the history of ever that a kid's died from a heart attack from touching a vandegraph generator? And they're like, it could happen. It's like, yes, of course it could happen, but like how we have to weigh these things. They're like, nope, it could happen. We're not gonna do that. Like only things that are totally safe. I was like, oh my God, it really bothers me. I think that's why the Trafalgar Square thing gets right at the heart of me. Just to top it off, I think this is the funniest thing I have seen, which is related to Trafalgar Square being the no fun zone. Just mere hours ago on the Halloween internet subreddit, someone posted a video of themselves in Trafalgar Square a couple of years ago doing some juggling. And the guards at Trafalgar Square come over and tell him that juggling is not allowed at Trafalgar Square. It looks like this guy was putting together one of those videos where he's doing juggling in various spots all over the world. He says in the description that like he traveled to all of these various places. And there was only one spot in the whole world where they told him, oh, sir, you're not allowed to juggle. And that was Trafalgar Square. Yeah, I mean, to be fair, that is also probably one of the prime spot where like, you know, professional jugglers try and busk for 20 minutes and make a bit of money. If there was one place where I thought you would get crack down on for juggling, it actually would be Trafalgar Square. That's like Basker Central, isn't it? And they're like very fine-tuned to people doing unauthorized busking there. Basking, I can totally understand. Well, juggling is a Basker Classic as well. It's not busking if you don't have a, like, a sad hoppers hat in front of you with some coins that you placed inside of it to get the thing going. They clearly thought that's what he was starting to do. I need to watch the video. I don't get me wrong. I like a good juggle. You like a good juggle? I'm a very good juggler. Oh, yeah? Yeah. How many balls can you juggle at once, Brady? Well, I'm not very good at four, but I'm very good at three. And I can do, like, behind my back and tricks and under my legs and stuff. Ooh, well, I look forward to the Brady juggling roadshow. I can't believe you haven't been subjected to it yet, to be honest. But, you know what? I'm surprised I haven't been subjected to it yet either. But I have a feeling like the next time we see each other in person, there's going to be some juggling. If there's, like, little kids that are bored, sometimes my wife will say, just do a bit of juggling for them, just to cheer them up. And I like it's more excited to say. That feels very Uncle Brady. Do you pull coins from behind their ears as well? Do you do that? Do you take their noses? No, I'm a bit more like edgy than that. I tell you what, though, a couple more things, though. Coming back to the Lions, because I was reading about why they banned people going on the Lions. And I read quite a bit about this and how they were, like, structural problems. They did, like, surveys of the Lions and found that people were starting to wear them away and stuff. Well, of course, yeah. Yeah, but like, fix them then, because this is part of the experience. It's like saying, we're going to ban people from throwing coins into the Trevy fountain because occasionally coins hit the stonework and cause little chips. Right. And the Trevy fountain is old and famous and important and shouldn't be chipped. But it's way more important that you're allowed to throw coins into it. So this kind of damage and wear and tear is part of the story of the Lions. So if they get worn away and you've got to give one of them, you know, a bit of back surgery or reinforced one or do some work on them, OK, do the work. But you've got to take the hit, you know? I'm with you 100% and I think this is another example of where there's an easy argument to make, which, like with the pigeons as well. It's like, you can put a number on how much damage does pigeon poo cause intrafalgar square every year in terms of dollars. Right. It costs us X amount to clean this thing every year. You can also say, oh, the Lions, if we need to strengthen up the backs every decade, it's going to cost us X amount. And like that is a real clear bureaucratic argument. But what it just feel like is the intangible thing on the other side is, but you know this is why people come here, right? You have to have touristy, interesting things for people to do. And if you continually crank this dial of having more and more of them, more and more off limits, like what is the point of all of this? It's like, yes, I'm sure it costs a lot of money to clean up all the pigeon poo intrafalgar square. But people come from the world over to see the pigeons and to go on the backs of the Lions. And surely hundreds of thousands of tourists a year pay through tax revenue and buying stuff and supporting the local economy. Like they pay for that upkeep. Like there's no way that it doesn't. But I feel like somehow the preservationist side and the cost side of the argument is just the de facto winner. And it's like impossible to try to be on the side of these intangible things. And I feel like, again, I'm totally with you on this. It's like, hey, look, guess what? These lions being outside wears them away. Everything erodes over time. You're going to have to update them anyway. Why not update them more frequently and also let people enjoy them? We could just put the whole thing inside a gigantic plastic box. And there's like, oh, well, there's also sun damage getting through that box. So we can put it in a gigantic opaque box all around Trafalgar Square. And nobody is allowed in. It's like, is that what you want? Now it'll last a really long time, right? But nobody gets to appreciate it. That feels like the logical conclusion of where this ends up. Well, that would be good. Would a big black box around Trafalgar Square? Everybody wants that. Except someone going like, well, you know, it would save us a lot of money every year on maintenance cost. Like, yeah, I'm sure it would. I'm sure it got damn wood. It's funny that like the last thing I just want to mention about this is the juggling guy reminded me of something that I haven't thought about in years. But as soon as I saw his video, I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot about this event. So this is something like maybe seven years ago now. My wife and I thought that we might be leaving London permanently. We weren't sure. This is the time in my life where I sort of ended up living in Hawaii for a little bit. But we were thinking there's a good possibility that we're leaving London and we won't come back. Obviously that didn't happen. But we thought that at the time. And now the place where my wife and I met each other in person for the first time was Trafalgar Square. If you are standing at the National Gallery and you are looking toward Nelson's column, we actually met right beneath the paws of one of those lions and it would be the lion on the left-hand side. That is where we met for the first time. And so when we were leaving London, we thought, you know what might be nice? Is let's take some really nice photographs of ourselves in Trafalgar Square as just like a little memory and momentum of here's a city that we really like and here's the place that we met. So my wife and I, we got dressed up all nice and fancy. My wife had a bunch of very high-end photography gear. And we got up super early in the morning and we went out to Trafalgar Square. And we thought, okay, we're going to take some photographs of ourselves at sunrise. Like we get there, there is nobody in Trafalgar Square. The place is totally empty. It's just my wife and I and she sets up her camera on the tripod so that we can take some pictures of us in various locations. And we're there for mere minutes before out of nowhere, a guard comes along and tells us that we're not allowed to be taking these pictures in Trafalgar Square. It's like, are you serious, man? Like is this something that's really happening right now? He goes, yeah, you're not allowed to do commercial photography. And I'm like, okay, but we're taking pictures of ourselves for ourselves. I was like, this isn't commercial photography. Like what are you talking about? Well, you have a tripod with that camera. So it must be commercial photography. There's no tripods allowed in Trafalgar Square for taking photographs. It's one of these things where it's just so crazy-making. You feel like you're in this bizarre moment of, wait, like presumably you don't want tripods in Trafalgar Square because they take up a lot of space and there's a lot of people here. But there's only three humans in the world in Trafalgar Square right now. It's like my wife, myself, and this guy telling us that we're not allowed to take these pictures. It was just like this incredibly frustrating back and forth where we're trying to convince this guy like we're not taking commercial photographs. And he's like, well, why are you dressed up all night? And it's like he just wouldn't let it go. And he's like, no, you can't do this. You got to go, you got to get out of here and not take these nice, momentum photographs of yourself bothering no one at 6am or whatever in Trafalgar Square. How did I end? Did you walk away with the tie with 20 legs? Or did you stand up for your rights and sock him once? I didn't punch him if that's what you're saying. All right. Well, here's an interesting thing, which is that we knew in advance that Trafalgar Square and this one other place in the UK which have really strange rules around photography inside of them. They're super harsh on commercial photography and getting filming rights and all the rest of this. Yeah. Because it's a revenue stream. Yeah. And it's like, again, also for doing like filming stuff there, it makes total sense. Because you see movies and TV shows being filmed in Trafalgar Square and they have to close the whole place down. It's like, yeah, of course, that makes sense. Because it's a big hassle. Like it takes up the square, blah, blah, blah. But I think it's a very big difference between that kind of thing and two people who are just like, no, we're taking photographs for ourselves. Like we don't have a crew here. There's just two people and we've come at a time that's bothering no one. The problem is you two are so damn good looking. He probably thought you were both models. Yes. I'm sure that is precisely what it was. He's like, oh, look at these amazingly good looking people. They must be models. But so all we did was just like, the dude was super frustrating and we went up the staircase and sort of by the national gallery and just waited for a little bit. He wandered around and then seemed to disappear from somewhere. So we just went back out and took a bunch of photos and then left. It's just like with the lion as well. It's like, okay, sure, Mr. Guard. I know you're going to stand here and you're going to take the camera if we leave it on the tripod and try to take some pictures of ourselves. So I'm just going to wait until you're further away and out of eyesight and then just do it again and then leave. But it's like, yeah, Trafalgar Square. No fun zone for a long time and the ratchet is only getting turned up. The whole professional photography thing also it must be getting just impossible to police because any amateur these days has a tripod and a posh camera and a nice lens. But also you could be there just clowning around on your iPhone and you could be some YouTube and making a video that's going to get watched by 30 million people. How they're policing that? I got no idea. It doesn't make any sense. I think especially with YouTube, the whole notion of commercial is very strange because I took some videos of the signs in Trafalgar Square and I put that up on my second channel. And the second channel does have ads that run on that video. So like, was I commercially filming in Trafalgar Square on my iPhone? It's like, I guess by the letter of the law I was. But by no reasonable person's definition, would you say, oh, that was a commercial filming operation. Lock him up, lock him up. It is very funny because you also see when I was there on that day, I did see a bunch of people with what I think of as like the Casey Neistat filming setup where they have a very impressive looking cannon camera with a little road microphone attachment on the top and the gorilla pod stand to hold it in their hands. And it is, it's this funny thing. Like, is that just some kid filming stuff for himself? Right? Or is that a vlogger with millions and millions of subscribers? Like, you don't know. And then is that a commercial operation or not? It really is crazy and it's unpleasable and it's frustrating. I was actually alerted to this situation by a couple of Tim's who I think had gone to the square. They're from San Francisco, but they were holidaying in London. It was a married couple. And they'd gone to the square. I think for a little bit of gray inspired civil disobedience. And they obviously saw this roped off area and realized they couldn't get up on the lines. So they took like a photo and posted it on Twitter, sort of saying, look how unfun the no fun zone is now. And I saw this and I just happened to be on the train on my way into London where I had meetings that day right near Trafalgar Square. And I felt so bad. I felt like I had to do my bit for London and for the UK. I didn't want them leaving thinking so terribly of Trafalgar Square. So I did message them on Twitter and I said, I'll tell you why if you're in that same place at six o'clock tonight, I'll come and say hello and let's take a better photo. So sure enough, I went later on and they turned up and we did our own little photo shoot. And funnily enough, I think that photo shoot may have been with your love line, because as I think about it now, it was that line on the left nearest the gallery as you look down from the gallery. So I think we were doing our little photo at the gray love line. We didn't get stopped. By the way, Kudos to the first person that goes onto Wikipedia and refers to that line as the love line. Brady, you're just encouraging Wikipedia vandalism there. We don't promote that on the show. Don't do that. You wouldn't want to cause Wikipedia problems. I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. You're so good to the Tim's, Brady. You really are. Taking photographs into Trafalgar Square, manufacturing shoes, getting vinyl records printed. You're very good to the audience. You always put me to shame with that. No. I was right nearby and like they had previously posted another picture as well where they had been at the San Francisco baseball stadium sitting like near where I sat when I went as well. So that'd been good Tim's about like rewarding good timidge. This episode of Hello Internet is brought to you in part by Squarespace. Squarespace is everything you need to create a website of your own, even if you know nothing about making websites. If you have an idea you want to show off, if you have a business you want to start, you're going to need a website and Squarespace is the place to do it. They offer award-winning templates that are the most beautiful way to present your ideas online. And with Squarespace, there's nothing to install, patch, or ever upgrade. All of that is a hassle you don't want to have to deal with. You don't want to learn about PHP servers or whatever. No, that is no fun at all. Not going to get you anywhere. Squarespace just lets your website come into existence. And if you do run into any trouble, Squarespace has award-winning 24-7 customer support. Now if you want to bring your stories to life with Squarespace, just go to squarespace.com slash hello. You'll be able to try Squarespace for free for 14 days and receive 10% off your first purchase. That's squarespace.com slash hello offer code hello. So get started right now with your idea for a website. Thank you to Squarespace for supporting the show. So Gray, in the last podcast, I talked about how traffic responds to ambulances and people getting out of the way of ambulances. And that caused lots of interesting discussion and there was lots of legal debate and things like that. There's no need to go over all that again. I think it's been well and truly thrashed out on the Reddit. But one thing I said that caused some controversy was I referred to the drivers of ambulances as ambulance drivers. And I don't know if you have seen some of the reaction this caused. I said at the time that a lot of people who work in ambulances listen to the podcast and that was proven to be true because they all got in touch. I've seen very much of this as well. Yes. And basically to summarize their argument, I supposedly have done them a disservice by referring to them as ambulance drivers as mere ambulance drivers because they are trained paramedics and they don't take well to being called ambulance drivers. And I was wondering how you felt about this, how you felt to this admonishment that I received. It's a funny thing because I feel like there is a presumption from the people who are paramedics about a thing that we're saying which were not because when I say something like ambulance driver, which is the phrase that I also used, I feel like in my mind you can translate that into a hero among men. Like that person is doing awesome, cool, dangerous driving down the roads. They're going to literally save lives. They're going in all of these dangerous situations. There was no suggestion they were not trained to do it as well. But I'm not here. The ambulance driver does not equate to Uber driver. Like dude with a car who's just doing a thing that is not the comparison in my mind. Like I can totally understand from the perspective of a paramedic. Like you go through a whole bunch of training and then you have a title that you are a paramedic. That means a particular thing in your mind. Whereas when we're talking about it, at least in my head it's all kind of mushed together where it's like, oh yes, of course ambulance drivers and paramedics. These are just people who are saving people's lives. And they are incredibly valuable members of society and they do great things. We got a lot of feedback because I can understand why from the perspective of a paramedic, they might feel like being referred to as an ambulance driver is less than what they are. But that is by no means the feeling in at least my head. And I presume your head when you are discussing what these people do. Well yes, can I second what Grey just said? But can I also add with all the love in the world to those paramedics, get off your high horse. Whoa! Because I accept that you have this incredible training and knowledge that I don't have. And I'm so thankful for what you do and I think you're heroes and you know, one day one of you might be leaning over me to save my life. And I hope you're not still angry at me at that point. And the words people say as he's putting the mask over your face are, you're a pretty heron. Yeah, how's this on your high horse? But no, the thing is, like yes you have all this medical training. But at that moment in time when you are driving the ambulance, to me, you are an ambulance driver. And that also is important and amazing and well trained and brilliant. But a person driving an ambulance is an ambulance driver kind of like by definition, even if they've stolen it, they're an ambulance driver at that point in time. And if like say someone drove into the front wall of my house tomorrow and knocked over the wall, and I was upset at them. And I was like here on the podcast complaining about it and I said, oh, Gray, you're not going to believe it. Like some car driver drove into my wall and knocked it over yesterday. They're not going to call me up and say, well actually, I happen to be a brain surgeon and I'd prefer it if you'd said a brain surgeon drove into my wall yesterday. Like yes, maybe you are a brain surgeon, but at the time you were driving the car and knocking over the wall, all you were to me was the driver of a car. Likewise, when someone is driving an ambulance past me at high speed, just go and save a life. At that point in time, you're an ambulance driver and I think that's a fair description of what you are. And trust me, you know, if I'm out in the field making one of my videos and a little kid says, mommy, mommy, look at that cameraman over there. I'm not going to turn around to them and say, excuse me, I'm a trained journalist and I have interview skills and I also do the editing and I also put things together and I'm going to create a lovely narrative out of the story. Oh, man. I just think, okay, I'm a cameraman at the moment. Oh, my God. Okay, few things. I feel like I cannot go down this line of reasoning with you. The thing is, I would bet so much money in real life that you would turn to that kid and be like, excuse me, I am a trained journalist. Everything I know about you, everything about our private conversations to me are all arrows pointing in the direction of, yes, Brady would tell that child that he is a trained journalist and not really a cameraman in that moment. You've got that wrong. But putting that aside, the ambulance driver thing. Okay, so if you were in that field filming a video about ambulances and they let you drive the ambulance, would you say that you were an ambulance driver in that moment? No, okay, you caught me out there. Okay. Perhaps using the notion of someone having stolen the ambulance was maybe me taking a little bit of dramatic license for the amusement of our listeners. But I do think it is fair to call someone who is earning money while driving the ambulance and ambulance driver. And yes, they also have an even more important role to play. But in the context of my story, all that mattered was that they were an ambulance driver. So here's the thing that I'm a little bit fanguian. So the preferred term is paramedic. I feel like I don't understand very clearly the boundaries of this word. Because do paramedics only exist in some form of transit? Like I'm thinking about, right, a paramedic is coming in an ambulance or a paramedic is coming in a helicopter. Do paramedics operate inside of the hospital? Or do they operate exclusively outside of the hospital in transit back to it? Like I don't understand actually very clearly where the boundaries of this are. You're asking me, I'm already in trouble for not knowing. So you don't ask me. Okay. I'm looking at up now. While I look this up, I have another question I want to throw out there to the paramedics. If you're a paramedic and you lose your driver's license, like say for drink driving, I'm assuming you can't now drive the ambulance. Are you still a paramedic if you can't drive an ambulance? Who drives the ambulance? Are there any just bespoke ambulance drivers? You know, I drive the ambulance, but like I don't know nothing about the human body. Like I just get the paramedics there. Do those people even exist? That's a very interesting question. I feel like economies tend towards specialization. I feel like somewhere in some country, this has to be a clear division of labor. That there does exist someone who is an ambulance driver only, who's trained on racetracks and pretend villages to be able to drive around corners. Because that seems like a very different skill set from being able to stop someone from bleeding to death in their kitchen. I don't think there's necessarily overlap. So there must be some place that has this division of labor. I'm sure we'll find out from all of the paramedics. Well, we're not going to find it from the paramedic Wikipedia page because that's a little bit nebulous. I was looking over that tune. I'm like, I'm getting no help from you Wikipedia page. This is not what I'm looking for. Please, please, please, nuisance team. Make the term ambulance driver redirect to paramedic. Brady, you are such a troublemaker. It's a thing I have to, I disapprove of greatly in your personality. So these are the questions. Are there people who are ambulance drivers only? And do paramedics only exist in transit from location? Are paramedics do they not exist inside of a hospital? I feel like this is what we need to know. Please go to the reddits and have a big angry discussion about it. I'm feeling a bit bad about this Wikipedia thing. I'll tell you what, if you are a Wikipedia mischief maker, not only are you very naughty and we don't approve of that. But I hope at least once a year you make a donation to the Wiki Foundation to support them. Because Wikipedia is pretty important. It's one of the few things that, like when I get tested about donations on the internet, I will sometimes say, you know what, I like Wikipedia. I'm going to chuck them a few bucks. That is the same in our household. Because yes, it is, ooh Wikipedia. It's super fun to mess with. And it is also maybe one of the most important things for civilization that has emerged in the past 20 years. It's on both sides of those scales. Support your local Wikipedia people. Was that an NPR joke? I don't know what that was. I feel like I've heard that phrase, but I wasn't intentionally making an NPR joke. Because like, this is something that's been on my mind lately and you've just brought it up by accident. But I don't listen to NPR radio because I live in England. Right. But I do listen to lots of NPR podcasts. An NPR podcast are obviously supported through like the NPR pot of money. And I think they've gotten themselves into this weird, antiquated situation now where there's obviously some turf war going on. And there's a lot of politics involved. Because whenever you're listening to the podcasts, they always say, if you want to support the podcast and give money so we can keep making this excellent podcast, go to your local radio station and give them money. Because some of that money you'll find it's way here and that's what keeps the podcast going. And I understand the situation that has come about and why this has happened. But I think some stage NPR are going to have to say, do you know what? Like our podcast are really popular now and people want to give them money. But they don't want to do this like indirect weird thing where they have to go to their radio station and prop up the radio station. So they can keep getting their podcasts. Yeah. So I think NPR needs to soon revisit this situation where their podcasts are saying, hey, go to your local radio station and give them money. I understand the politics. I can see what's happened. This old media versus new media thing going on within the one organization. But it's very strange to me and it's starting to sound strange. That makes no sense to me. So you're listening to an NPR podcast. Yeah. So I'm listening to it and they say, if you like this and you want to give us money, here's what you do. Go to your local NPR radio station and give them money. Okay. So I am Joe Johnson listening and boys in Idaho. And I like a podcast from Washington about Washington politics or something. Right. It's not about boysy. It's some NPR podcast broadcast everybody. And in theory, the thing that I'm supposed to do is find boysy radio BQRX103.2 and hand them an envelope full of cash. Like, that seems so crazy. I don't even understand how that mechanism is supposed to work. That is so weird. It's a bit like us saying, if you like Hello Internet and want to support Brady and Gray, give money to my best friend's cousin's sister's brother because I owe him money for something I borrowed from him six months ago. And that will really help me out. People are like, no, I don't want to do that. Yeah. I would never do that. They need to set up crowdfunding for the podcast that seems like what they should do. And clearly, I mean, I can see what's happened. Obviously, this is a huge radio infrastructure that which is probably crumbling in some way because of everyone's listening to podcasts instead of radio. And the radio people are like worried that they're going to cease to exist. They should totally be worried because they are on the way out. And you don't need to explain to me that the journalism of the radio stations feeds into the podcast. I understand all that. There's a New York Times podcast I listen to sometimes. And they always say, hey, people always ask how to give money. The best thing you can do is get a subscription to the New York Times because that's the journalistic engine that keeps this podcast going. And again, that's true. But it's that extra layer of abstraction that I think makes you resistant. The New York Times one is at least to me a much straighter arrow. Yes. This is the parent organization The New York Times. Give us some money to support the podcast. It's very interesting from a big organization perspective. Like if you want people to give you money, how to do it, I feel like in that situation, let's say there was a podcast from The New York Times I was listening to and that I liked. And I wanted to support it. Like I would feel a little bit of a weirdness giving to the New York Times as a whole because I feel like, but I want to give it to this exact podcast. Yeah. But you can see that The New York Times organization wants the money to go to the parent organization not to the podcast in particular. And of course, like money is fungible for an organization like that. It doesn't really matter. Yeah. But I'm thinking like if NPR was doing crowdfunding, I think the institution's instinct would be to do the thing that would probably get them less money overall, which is to have one gigantic contribute to NPR fund, as opposed to setting up a whole bunch of contribute to this particular podcast funds. Even if they had some little disclaimer like, oh, you're contributing to podcast X and 50% of the revenue that goes to podcast X goes to the parent organization as well. Like I'd be willing to bet they would make more revenue overall by asking for donations to particular podcast than to the parent organization. But I'd also bet they would never actually set it up that way. No, probably not. Speaking of big organizations, let me tell you a funny thing that happened to me yesterday. I went to my local gym. I just wanted to sit in the jacuzzi, actually. So I went along and I sat in the jacuzzi because I just just what I wanted. All right. And where my sort of gym is is sort of connected to this posh hotel and guests of the posh hotel use the same facility. And this hotel always hosts like away days and weddings and stuff like that. Right. So I was sitting in the jacuzzi for probably half an hour. And there was obviously this big away day happening at the hotel. They were all men. All these men who were at this away day for this business came and sat in the jacuzzi around me. So there was like probably eight of us and the seven of them worked for this business. And they were talking about their work. And then a few of them got out and then a couple more came. And then a few of others got out and a couple more came. And over the course of half an hour, probably 16 or 17 people that worked for this business sat in the jacuzzi with me. And they spent the whole time talking about their work. Nonstop. The politics of how Bill's lazy isn't pulling his weight and this email and that email and this report I had to fill out. And this thing I had to do, they never stopped talking about their work the whole time, the whole half hour I was in the jacuzzi. And it was only at the very, very end. It suddenly occurred to me after listening to these people talk nonstop about their work for half an hour. I had no idea what they did or what their business was. Not one single thing gave away what they want their business was. And it made me realize how universal people complaining about their work is. Like I even said to them at the end, guys, I've been listening to you guys for the last half an hour. I have no idea what you do. Like what's your business? Like they were laughed and like they realized like at certain points I was like I thought I'd figured it out and I was transposing different businesses onto what they did. They could they could have been about your journalists. Seriously, they could have been they could have been accountants at one point. I thought they were like a state agents and things like that. I couldn't figure out what they were doing listening to them talk for half an hour. Part of it made me miss working because they had such camaraderie and you know, but another part of me made me realize well, working in an organization is pretty crappy. Yeah, you're always getting sucked up in the politics. As soon as you get past maybe five people working together, it's like politics starts to happen. It's just a natural side effect of the way humans are. So what was the business? I have to know now. Even when they told me I still didn't know what they did because apparently they worked in operations for a retail organization. Okay, yeah. So I don't know exactly what that means. Does that means they're like head office for a shop? I don't know. This scenario when I'm talking to somebody and I get an answer about their job, that's what you should say your job is when you don't want people to ask questions. Because as soon as they said operations for a retail organization, I just shut up. Yeah, you know what? That's that's not a bad idea. I work in digital operations. I mean, the thing I wanted to say when they said that was what retail organization. I was a stranger and I just basically had told these people I've been listening to your gossip. I would have looked like some kind of industrial spy or like investigative journalist if I said what organization? Yeah, give me names. You bring out a little waterproof notepad to write things down and you go, yeah, that's interesting. I think what's happening here is there is like a larger and larger portion of the economy, which is not directly involved in doing the thing, but is instead involved in managing doing the thing. Yeah. And I feel like this is why it is an incredibly common experience to run into people. And it's like everybody seems to be like, so what do you do exactly? I don't understand. So you're not making a thing. You're overseeing people who make a thing or you're overseeing departments of people who make a thing. It just feels like the economy leans more towards layers of management. And I'm not even saying that those layers are unnecessary. Like I think as the economy gets more complicated, it shouldn't be surprised that more and more people are involved in what you could broadly call like management or logistics. Like that becomes more and more vital as a thing to do. Yeah. But I do have this, let's call it like not really great pro-social tendency that in these moments when somebody gives me an answer like that, I have a very hard time not drilling down with the person precisely what it is that they do. It almost always ends up in this thing where it's like, oh, if I'm meeting with someone on a Friday, the conversation will bend towards me like, okay, look, I still don't understand. This morning when you went into work, it's like 9 a.m. what was the thing that you did? And it's like this line of questioning makes people really uncomfortable. Yeah. It would have made them more uncomfortable because our bare legs were touching underwater. I could see that definitely encourages a little bit of social awkwardness. I love the fact that you're chatting with a bunch of other guys in the jacuzzi after spying on them for a while. It's like, I wanted to go out with them. They were planning their night out. It sounds like they were going to have a big night out. They were talking about what pub they were going to go to and go out drinking. And I was like, oh, yeah. That's fantastic. And then these guys are wondering, who the hell is this hanger on? No, from the way they were talking, they'd probably just think I was one of them. Like, I don't think anyone knew anyone was. Like, who is that guy? I don't know. He must be in. I thought you knew who he was. I don't know. He seems to fit in. You could have totally blended right in. This is like an American psycho situation where none of these guys really know who the other guys are anyway. So what does it matter? This episode of Hello Internet is brought to you in part by Audible. Audible is a leading provider of premium digital spoken audio information and entertainment on the Internet. You can get a free audiobook with a 30-day trial at audible.com slash Hello Internet. That's where you should go right now. Audible.com slash Hello Internet to get a free audiobook with your 30-day trial. Now, Audible, as always, likes for us to recommend a book. So I recently read a book that I can highly recommend. And it's Tribe by Sebastian Younger. He's the same guy who wrote a perfect storm if you ever read that. It's a little bit of a difficult book to describe, but I can briefly say that it is a little bit about people in war, particularly men in war and how that affects them. It talks about some of the difficult things like why is it that some soldiers really find solace in being in a group in war and why they can have difficulty reintegrating into society afterwards. That makes the book sound like it's a huge downer, but I actually found it a fascinating non-downer read. And it's also very short, which is a thing that I really appreciate in books sometimes. So if you're looking for a book to try, maybe something that's a little bit different than what you would normally do, give Tribe a try on audible.com. So if you want to listen to it, Audible has it with an unmatched selection of audiobooks, original audio shows, which is something that they have started now, news, comedy, and more, you'll always find what you're looking for. Once again, get your free audio book with a 30-day trial today by signing up at audible.com slash Hello Internet. That's a-u-d-i-b-l-e.com slash Hello Internet. I remember when Theresa May, the prime minister of the UK, which is prime minister as I'm speaking now, I don't know what the situation will be when this podcast goes out. The prime minister who called the SNAP election to consolidate her power, as we discussed. And I couldn't resist on election night when I all went wrong for her and she lost her majority. And it must have been one of the less enjoyable evenings of her professional career. I couldn't resist going back to your tweet from when the election was first called, where you just had the Jurassic Park meme of Clevver Girl. And I remember you talking about it on the podcast, tell you talked about what a genius mover was. People had to vote for her. She cornered them in such a clever way that they had no choice but to vote for her and increase her power. For those who don't know, that's not how it played out. And she went from having a small majority in the House of Commons to having no majority in the House of Commons. How are you feeling now? Are you feeling sheepish? I didn't follow the election at all between that tweet and then when somebody sent me a message about like, oh, there's a coalition government in the UK now. Like, as far as on my radar, the whole election disappeared and then just reappeared several weeks later. Yeah. It's interesting. And from my perspective, I have no idea what happened in the intermediate time. What's happened is she's obviously in the minority. She hasn't got enough votes to get anything through. But what she's doing is rather than forming a coalition, which is what happened a couple of elections ago between the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats. Right. What she's trying to do, as we're speaking now, it hasn't actually been signed and it's causing controversy for some other reasons that I won't bore you with. But what she's trying to do is broker a deal with a political party, the DUP from Northern Ireland, who have some handful of seats in the Commons. But they've got just enough seats to give her a majority. So what she's doing is she's trying to broker a deal with them where they're not in coalition and they don't have to support her laws and all her votes and everything she does. But they do agree to support her on two important things, confidence and supply. So if there's no confidence vote, they agree to support the government, so the government can stay in government. And if there's something that's going to block up the money and the budget supply, they also will support the government on that. So it's not a coalition, they don't have like, you know, they're not part of the government. It's just an agreement to support them on those two crucial things and everything else is going to be just chaos. And what they're going to get for that deal is yet to be finalized. Like, you know, I'll be suddenly going to get lots of shiny, new, gorgeous infrastructure in certain parts of Northern Ireland as a result of this. I imagine that might happen, yes. But of course, the problem is Northern Ireland is deeply, deeply divided between its own parties like the DUP and Sinn Fein, and we're obviously not going to go into that. But obviously like Sinn Fein and these other parties in Northern Ireland are like, hang on a second, you're the UK government. You're supposed to in some ways kind of keep out of the Northern Ireland mess. You know, there's agreements here that have been made. And now you're like, buddying up with just one of the parties to get their votes. So more mess is to come. As we spate now, this agreement hasn't been signed. That's very interesting. I thought she had formed an official coalition. This is a much more interesting situation. The UK government sort of kind of taking a side in the Northern Irish politics. Like, boy, that sounds like a whole bunch of not fun. I like this idea that there's a coalition that is like an unofficial official coalition is what's happening here. Which is amazing because it sounds like maximum instability now. It's like coalitions. People always worry about them being unstable. And now, do not even have a coalition is unstable or that's fantastic. I don't know what the betting markets are saying at the moment, but a lot of people are saying that there'll probably be another election this year. Oh, really? Interesting. I think not. But why do you think not? Because I mean, one of the reasons this election went so pear-shaped, I think, for Theresa May, was like election fatigue. And I think people are sick of having elections all the time. And they thought she was having another one to be a bit greedy. And people wanted to give her a bit of a bloody nose for that, or they did for whatever reason. So I think if there's another election this year, it will be one that's kind of forced upon them. Certainly, I don't think the Conservative party would risk holding it. But I don't know. What do I know? I don't know much. Your bet is that if there is another election, it would just be simply because the government just falls apart. It is in the Assembly dissolves. And we have another election. Interesting. It's false to paces. It's interesting because, again, I didn't follow any of the things going on. But the reason I thought it was such a clever move is because I did have this feeling like, boy, you're really boxed into having to support Theresa May because, like my feeling is the result we have now is kind of like the worst of everything. Because if Brexit is going to happen, even though I am not in favor of Brexit, I would still want the UK government to be in the strongest negotiating position for Brexit to occur. Otherwise, it feels like cutting your nose despite your face. And so that's why I thought, oh man, this election is locked down because everyone else is going to make this kind of like same game theory calculation. Like, well, we don't want Brexit to happen. But if it's going to happen, we might as well make our position super strong. And it feels like, oh god, here we go. Like, well, the UK is wandering into Brexit with a real bloody nose before the negotiations have even really begun. I feel like this is not a good situation. I tell you one thing that's interesting though. I mean, I know you and I are not, you know, we don't talk a lot of politics and stuff. And especially you aren't particularly interested. But this does mean that if Brexit goes ahead, which seems like it still will, you being so wrong about the general election does mean you're probably more likely to be right now about your Brexit prediction. And that is everyone seems to agree now that soft Brexit is much more likely than hard Brexit. We seem to be drifting towards a hard Brexit before this election. And now soft Brexit seems like the more likely scenario. I don't know. I still feel like with all of this stuff, some weird part of me would still think like this will just never be resolved. Right? That this will just go on forever and ever. Even though I know that a cant like article 50 has been triggered. Yeah. There's some part of me which is cant let go of the idea of like, man, people can stall forever sometimes. And are we just, are we just going to be left in a limbo that just never ends? That's a remain a fantasy then that remain a fantasy suddenly became a little bit more possible. I think it's still a fantasy. But I obviously was hoping we would stay in the EU as well. So the idea of it falling apart delights me. But I don't know if it'll happen or not. But yeah, I think it won't. I don't think it will fall apart. Something happens or endless negotiation happens. But those are different from it falling apart. I don't know. It's been a real interesting time with elections. That's for sure. And I feel like this one was to me particularly unexpected. I feel like I don't really understand what happened between when she called the election and when the election happened. But yeah, it's surprising. I think it is interesting and I don't like the position that the UK is in now because I feel like it's a worse negotiating position. But maybe if it ends up being a softer Brexit in the long run, that's better. I don't know. Who knows. Only in the future will we know. Current us recording this now has no idea. So there was another piece of news I wanted to bring up with you. This is one of the times where the fact that our podcasts are so far apart comes in handy or works against us. I don't know which. In the summertime, Brady, you can't have a lot of podcasts in the summer. Everybody knows that. Well, you certainly can't. There was big news that I couldn't wait to tell you. It's not be related. We haven't actually had the buzz this week. Is there going to be a buzz this week? There's no buzz this week, Brady. Okay. There has been a lot of bee news. In fact, did you not see the story about the vice president of the United States? Has put a bee hive at his house? This sounds vaguely familiar. It was like presidential buzz news. In the summertime, Twitter is also very hard to do. So I haven't been keeping up with the Twitter as much because it's warm outside. The second lady has installed a bee hive at the vice presidential residence. It's to raise awareness of the dwindling honey bee population. Well, now that we've gotten some honey bees in the vice presidency, there's only one place to go. Presidential honey bees in the future. Imagine that, like a big White House of bees. Yeah. That'd be awesome. White House of bust for bees. Yeah. So after that accidental piece of buzz, let me tell you more importantly, what I thought was going to be Mount Everest news that I couldn't wait to discuss with you. But I think it's been snatched away from me because there was this story during the rounds a few weeks ago that this really famous feature on Mount Everest called the Hilary Step, which is a sort of rocky outcrop. And it's the last bit of technical climbing you have to do before you get to like the summit of Everest. Had like collapsed, had fallen apart. Apparently it was shaken apart by the earthquake that happened a couple of years ago. And because no one had gone and navigated it since, because of problems on Everest, all the climbers were going back for the first time. And they were like, it's not there anymore. There's just all this snow and the rocks falling apart. And my impression was it had become actually easier now to get up past it and go on up to the summit. And they were like these before and after pictures doing the rounds. And it looked to me like it wasn't there anymore. And I was really excited. And so just before the show, I was like getting everything ready to tell you about it. And now there seems to be this second story where climbers are saying, no, no, no, no, no. We think it's still there. There's just been a lot of snow and you can't see it properly. And it's covered in snow at the moment. But the Hilary Step is still there. So the jury is out as to whether or not this famous feature, this beloved feature on Mount Everest may not even be there anymore. It's not often you get geological news, is it? That works on a pretty slow time scale. So the idea that we have like a new piece of geology to tell everyone about, like was quite exciting to me. But now I don't know. So we have to wait a bit longer. Issues of the buzz might come out on a monthly basis. But I feel like the geology now magazine maybe comes out once a year. Geological news happens on a geological time scale. Yeah. But like of all the things that could change, like all the geological features in the world that could change. Like there's only one geological feature, like higher than the Hilary Step. And that is like the summer of Mount Everest. So sure of the summer of Mount Everest disappearing, which I don't think is technically possible. The Hilary Step disappearing is like big news. It's the second highest named thing in the world, I think. So anyway, there you go. There's Mount Everest non news or maybe news. That's what to the snow thores. But I have been hearing your teams for those 400,000 teams that alerted me to this news. I did receive your emails and tweets. Thank you. So you went to WWDC. And I know you've discussed this on detail in the other place. But I do want to find out what it was like. That was a good. By the way, the other place is like a politics joke. Like if people don't know how like parliaments work, you don't name the other chamber and stuff. Oh yeah. My learned friend in another place is what you sometimes stay instead of like the House of Lords. Really? Is that like a question time thing? I don't think I've ever heard that phrase. Yeah, it's like a parliament thing. So anyway, was it good? Did you have a good time? I always feel kind of funny going to a conference like WWDC because I don't really have any reason to be there. Like I'm not a developer. I don't have like a software business that has any reason to be in WWDC. This is for me just totally an extension of really like my professional interest in Apple as a user of their products. And particularly interesting to go after what feels like has been a long time where there haven't been any updates in their products. So I went. I really enjoyed it. I feel like they had a whole bunch of exciting announcements. Which it's kind of nice to be there in person for that and to be around people when that's happening. Why? Well, it's nice to be in person because when you're watching the announcements, you can see other people's reactions to things. And you know how... You know what other people care about and what you care about. And this was a really good show because everybody got something that they liked. And then the other reason I do like to be there in person is when Apple announces that they have new products like this year they have new iPads, they give out review units to some of the people who are there. And there are circumstances under which maybe a person like me can get their hands on the brand new thing to get a first look at it for brief periods of time. And that's the kind of thing that you could only do if you are physically at where the conference is happening. It's just plain exciting. Like it's super fun and super interesting to see the brand new thing that was announced the day before which hasn't gone on sale yet. So I really quite like that. Who would have thought that you of all people would like get a thrill from that? Like because you know you're going to get it in a few weeks and you buy everything new anyway. So you are going to have one. Who would have thought that like that kind of cheap thrill would penetrate your rational exterior? Don't get me wrong. Like it would work on me because I like cheap thrills. But who would have thought that you would be so susceptible to the cheap thrill of, oh I'm getting to touch this a few weeks before everyone else? Is that a cheap thrill though? I mean the joke is always like Apple has this reality distortion bubble that they announce things and it seems like it's amazing in their presentations. But there's a really big difference between seeing and handling something in person versus just seeing it presented on a stage. Oh yeah don't get me wrong. Oh yeah no I understand the difference between saying a picture of it and actually getting to use it. I just could have imagined a scenario in which you said well it's going to be in the shop in six weeks anyway and I'm going to buy it. So the fact that I've touched it for 15 minutes, six weeks before is really irrelevant. I'm going to come to grips with it soon anyway and I will know in six weeks whether it's good or it's bad. And it's basically just that kind of not that you would boast about it but that kind of boasting of I got to touch it before everyone else. I would have thought would have little impact on you. I feel like you don't understand at all the joy that I'm getting out of this. It's not that I get to touch it before other people do. I want to pass it through my own evaluation filter as soon as possible. So it's impatient. You're impatient to say it. No you don't need to use such funny words. It's like I want to know if the thing is as good as they're saying it is. But you are going to find that out. You're going to find that out whether you're at WWDC or not. You are going to find out when it's in the shop if it's as good as they say it is. Yeah I just like to find out sooner. It's fun to find out sooner. Hence my word impatient which I think was the ideal word for that to describe that. I want to find out sooner. I guess. But somehow ready when you use the words I feel like I have the shape of some like Brady thought in my mind which you seem to be expressing which doesn't match up with my own internal experience here. Because if I was in London still I don't think I'd be feeling like oh man I can't wait to see the thing like I got to get my hands on it. I would just be waiting until it was available. But if I can go to WWDC and I can see the things ahead of time I would prefer to do that. And so it's like impatience seems like such a funny word to use. But maybe you're right maybe it is the best word in this circumstance. I mean WWDC like isn't that like fueled by impatience? Like people's enthusiasm to see the stuff as soon as humanly possible? Like that's why everyone's there. I know there are other reasons like collaboration and you know. No no no no. The primary thing with WWDC is apples announcing all of their new software changes so that all of the developers who are there can get the answer. Can get their apps ready for when the software is officially released. Like there has to be a big period of time between which Apple reveals. Here's all the new things we've been working on here, all the changes that we've made. You need to adapt all of your programs to work with this new paradigm. Like there has to be at least a several month gap before the time. Yeah before then Apple says here we're now putting all of these changes on everybody's iPhone. Impatience isn't the correct word to describe that. It's just like we need a buffer period where people can adapt their stuff to the new way things are going to work. And that is why essentially everybody is at WWDC. They want to find out what's happening and more importantly software developers can actually get in touch with people and Apple and ask them questions about how to change their software. That's why I feel I always feel like really out of place. You're the one guy that wants to just touch an iPad before it runs. Yeah exactly. Everybody else is there for like serious business work and I'm there going, Tee hee hee, let me look at the things. That's why it feels a bit funny to go but it just so happens to have worked out in the past two years that WWDC combined with other things and family stuff. It's worked out that I can roll it up into one gigantic ball of traveling for the summer. It happens to have worked out this way but it's not the kind of thing like I wouldn't fly over only for WWDC most likely. I need to like wrap it up in a whole bunch of other stuff to do because again I have no real reason to be there except in patience. Are they releasing anything that I should be excited about? I would say the thing that you should be excited about is new iMac pros. Yeah I did hear there is one and it excites me. I went to the Apple store today but obviously it wasn't there because I wanted to find out what it was all about. It's not coming out until much later in the year. It's coming out in December supposedly but yes this is for you and I for the work that we do probably the machines that we should get. It's also very nice because they're making it in black which is nice instead of the silver as a way to distinguish like this is their professional thing. But yes it's coming out in a few months and I don't know about you but my iMac certainly could use a bit of horse power update. It comes to exporting videos and editing podcasts and all the rest of that. Please tell me it's going to have like some ports in it please they're not going to like just have like one hole in it for Apple stuff only like is it going to have like am I going to be able to plug stuff into it. It's funny you mentioned that because I'm recording right now on my MacBook Pro which I brought with me for this trip. And the lack of ports is just killing me setting it up today it's like I have four USB C ports but of course the microphone that I'm using isn't USB C it's USB A so I need to have an adapter. And it's like all of the hard drives I have also need adapters and I'm sitting here over the past few weeks realizing like I don't have enough adapters to work with this thing. And even when I went out and bought like a big bag full of adapters there's still only four ports and it's like I need to plug in more than four things when I'm doing professional work on the road. And the lack of SD card slot is just killing me on this trip. I just had this today I went to the Mac store today and I was looking at the MacBook Pro and I was just like I was looking for an SD slot in it. And just then the lady from the shop came up to me and said can I help you and I basically just turned her and said you guys are having a laugh and walked off. I was just enchanted. I got to say all of the things that they've done. Okay switching to USB C ports I can get on board a train that's driving to the future fine right reducing the number of ports I guess I can live with it. But cutting out the SD card slot so that you can pull footage off your camera fast like isn't that the definition of pro like how is this not in the laptop it has killed me so many times on this trip it is such a pain the butt to not have that. I do know that the new Mac pro does have USB C slots and has USB A slots and has Thunderbolt slots. I don't know if it has an SD card slot or not but it seems like they've reversed a little bit on their decision of we will just go with two beautiful USB C ports because how could you possibly ever need more. So it does look like their black iMac pro will actually have a bunch of slots but it kills me on this laptop like I swear to God if Apple released the exact same laptop and they only changed one thing they added an SD card like I would buy it because it's so important. So I'm trying to be with this SD stuff because obviously you're taking photos on your trip what percentage of the photos that you take have you in them have you taken any photos with you in them. Okay I'm going to estimate 5% of the photos I take have me in them that's more than I would have guessed that might be a real over estimate but here's the thing Brady. The only reason that I take photographs with me in them is because I know that my parents and my wife vastly prefer photographs that have me in them versus just photographs of things which I can totally understand but if for some reason my family did not want photographs of what I'm up to I think I would have essentially zero photographs with myself in them. I go a little bit back and forward on this because don't get me wrong like I love taking like a nice photo for the sake of just a photo but part of me does think like if you're not taking any pictures with you in them what's the point of taking a photo at all I guess like why not just like buy a postcard by a photographer who would have taken a much better photo from the same spot. I don't agree with that I think there's something about taking a photograph of a spot that you have taken like I obviously of course any any notable landmark of any kind if you go to there will exist better photographs of that thing but I think there's something kind of nice about taking a photograph yourself of a place even if it's not as good of a photograph as it could possibly be. I also think that if you go somewhere significant you should like take a photo of yourself there like it's kind of like your flag on the moon it's just like yeah I was here you know I was there when you look back at it I like if you go somewhere really amazing and don't I have no photograph of yourself there I think you could regret it later. I'm mentally running over my last 10 years of taking photographs and I feel like I don't really regret not having photographs of me in any particular places I feel like I'm totally fine with a photograph of the thing but it is mostly that other people are much different. I'm just less fine with solely photographs of things they want photographs of people which is completely understandable. In further fun election news we have another election that took place recently and this was the Puerto Rican referendum on whether or not Puerto Rico should become a state of the United States. Puerto Rico has existed for a very long time in this in between land as a territory and the U.S. has this very strange system of territories which was obviously designed for the 1800s when America was adding a whole bunch of states and was not intended to be a thing that would just go on forever but Puerto Rico has ended up being a territory for a very very long time. There has been a debate for ages about whether or not Puerto Rico should become a state of the United States if it should become an independent country of its own or if it should enter into what is called free association with the United States which is I guess you could describe it as independence light where it is functionally an independent country but a bit under the Aegis of the United States. These are the options that have been open to Puerto Rico and they just recently had a referendum on it and Puerto Rico has voted for full statehood as the option that they wish to pursue. There are a few things coming to mind and a few things to talk about that you're going to want to talk about but just to start me off here you're talking as if this is entirely their decision which I find hard to believe. There's a whole other party here isn't there which is the other 50 states. It's not just their decision is it's not like you and I could decide we want a form of state of the United States invite on and then tell them. All right we're in. This is the beginning of even under the best of circumstances what would be a very long dance between Puerto Rico and the United States. I'm not going to go off hand what the exact procedure is but yeah it is not the case that if Puerto Rico decides that it wants to be a state that it is just immediately accepted into the union given its status as a territory. So given that is a known thing I assume polling's been done but I don't know whether it's that this is a common knowledge or not. Is it a well known thing how the greater body of the United States feels about this like to most people think yeah let him in or to most people think no way we don't want him. What's the general temperature of the United States in in relation to this I have never seen any polling data on it I would be curious but I would bet that if you asked Americans about Puerto Rico you would only get one of two answers and it would be people who think it is a separate country and people who think it is already a state in the United States. No. I would wager an enormous amount of money on that that most people would not be able to answer that Puerto Rico is a territory of the United States right most continental citizens. Yeah I agree with part one of what you said I just cannot believe part two I cannot believe you could find people who think Puerto Rico is one of the 50 states. You always have such a high opinion of people Brady I find it really charming it's like I know too many things about how people in New Mexico have a hard time getting deliveries to New Mexico in the United States. I've run across too much of this stuff where people just don't understand what the states are I'm not even confident that more than 75% of adult Americans would know that there are 50 states exactly. I've run into people who are like oh it's 52 states isn't it for some reason like this seems to be a number that lodges in people's heads. I can say where that confusion comes from but yeah okay so that's why I would be very willing to bet that most Americans think it is already a state or think it is a separate country and just don't really have any opinion on this matter at all. But when I think is a really really interesting. Snag in this because because this is going to start a dance between Puerto Rico and the United States but just I think there's interesting parallels with this to Brexit because. Just like the Brexit turnout was lower than expected. The voter turnout in the Puerto Rican referendum was hilariously low. 23% of the population turned out to vote in this referendum. That seems to me just like a real snag perhaps in this because again it's like a non-binding referendum but I feel like it is really hard to call that a clear victory that Puerto Ricans want to become an official state in the United States when only. 23% of people turned out to vote in the actual referendum. I mean I'm not expert on this I've only read one article about the story at all but in that article I did read two important pieces of information that feed into that though. One is they have voted on this before. Yes. It's not the first time. The second thing is this particular election was unique because there was this like call for a boycott. Like there was a political reason for that low turnout. It wasn't that people don't care and things. The low turnout was in itself part of the politics of it. That's exactly right. I didn't follow the exact details of it but the two other major parties and options boycotted the referendum. When you look at the voter turnout makes it even more hilarious because 23% of the people showed up to vote. But of those 23% who showed up to vote 97% of them voted for statehood is like okay this is not any kind of normal election result whatsoever. So I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up going nowhere. I just don't know. I don't know what are the interests of all of the parties that are involved in this. I don't know if the United States wants to add an additional state like is that advantageous over the situation with Puerto Rico now. I'm not sure that it is. I just don't know. It's just yet another in the past year of elections. An election about a very important thing and the election itself the results are unexpected and strange. So if you were made like boss of the universe tomorrow and the people of the United States and the people of Puerto Rico said, Grey we don't know what to do. Can you just decide for us? If you had to decide tomorrow and no one would complain about your decision, they'd say Grey just decide it for us man. What would you do? There's many complications here. What I was going to say is I guess if I could snap my fingers, I would make Puerto Rico an independent nation because in general, I prefer for political power to be in smaller, more local groups than in larger blocks. And this would like a creep more power to the level of the federal government and away from Puerto Rico over time, which is what happens in the United States. But I guess the problem there is there's an enormous number of Puerto Ricans who live and work in the United States. It's a perennial problem for Puerto Rico that there's a bit of a brain drain of many of its talented citizens saying, well, as a Puerto Rican, I can live and work in the United States. And so I'm moving to New York or I'm moving to San Francisco and I'm not going to stay down here on this island. So I don't think those people would be super happy. So I guess I don't know, I guess maybe the optimal solution is really for Puerto Rico to just stay as a territory essentially forever. Because I think one of the only major downsides of that is like an inability to vote for president. And I think there are a few tax implications. But maybe for Puerto Ricans, the best thing to do would be to stay as a territory forever, to be slightly arms length from the federal government while still having all of the advantages of American citizenship. I don't know, yeah. Just thinking it out loud, maybe that's what the result really should be. Soft prex at soft territoriality. I would say though that if I was in charge of everything tomorrow, I would declare this referendum just totally invalid. And so like, no, do it again. If you get 23% of the people to show up like, I'm sorry, we're not making any decisions based on that. Like this is no indication of what people actually think. You got to try again with your referendum Puerto Rico. I mean, of course, this being hello internet matches of sort of governance and voting and immigration pale into insignificance when compared to the discussion that must be heard about what to do with the American flag. If Puerto Rico becomes a state, I know, I know. This is the most exciting part. This is the most exciting part by far. It's been so long since we added a star to the US flag. And what makes it even better is 51 is such a terrible number. This is no good way to arrange 51 stars. So this to me would be the most exciting thing about Puerto Rico joining the United States is we would have to have some kind of decision made. Decision made about what our options would be for 51 star flag. And there's some institution which has mapped out possible designs for like the next 10 stars to be added, which I think is a little bit optimistic about how many states you're going to add. But this is the thing that people like to think about. And I'll send you a link to what are some of the top options for 51 star flag designs. Okay, 51. Let's have a look here. Maybe no, no, maybe, maybe, maybe no, no. Okay, so be careful. The link that I've sent you, the first three are 51 star designs and the rest of them are 52. Then it's 52. There are then it's 52 and 53. Okay, so you're right. Of the three 52s, I'm saying yes, no, no. So only the first one there is acceptable. So basically one of them kind of to the at first glance looks like the current flag. A little bit disjointed kind of a little bit kind of a kind of Kindle not justified, but acceptable. If you just add one more star and try to keep the rows in the way that it looks right now, I feel like this is just a nightmare of a flag. It just looks wrong. The rows are unsymmetrical from top to bottom. Yeah. This is totally unacceptable as a flag. But then if you're not going to do that, you have to try to find a way to aesthetically pleasingly rearrange the stars. Well, you've got one that's kind of like some kind of like it kind of looks like an optical illusion cube or some kind of weird. It's like if you took a hexagon, but you made the top you stretched out the top and bottom. So it's a it's a long a gone hexagon is what it is. It looks like a regular hexagon that someone has sat on and squashed. Oh, yeah, that's good. That's that's also good. Yeah, that's correct. And that again, no, because that leaves all this excess blue in the bit in the corner. Yeah, that's all right. They tried to arrange them in kind of are they concentric circles? I don't know, but it just creates weird shapes. And apparently this is the one proposed by the new progressive party of Puerto Rico. I think the new progressive party of Puerto Rico is not listening to enough Hello Internet and not getting the right to get the with legs. There is a way to arrange 51 stars into roughly a sphere by putting one star in the center. And then you have to be very careful about how you put all the other stars around it. Well, it's not a sphere. A sphere is three dimensional, but that would be an awesome fact. I think the reason why I set a sphere is because when I look at this thing full screen, like a full screen image of the 51 star circular flag, there is almost like an optical illusion. It's an optical illusion. Yeah, it's like an optical illusion that it it almost feels like the first star is closer. It ends up reminding me very much of the giant ball at Epcot in Disney. That's what it looks like. It looks like they are different distances apart because in order to try to make it a filled in circle, you have to change the distribution of distances between the stars. So what I think is so fascinating about the idea of Puerto Rico joining is the US flag. We said before, it's not my favorite flag, but all of the options for what on earth can you do with 51 stars? I think they're all terrible options. They're not great. If I had to go with one, I would actually go with the sphere of stars. No, no, no, no. But here's the thing. Here's a real problem with that one. At smaller and smaller sizes, it looks worse and worse, and at larger and larger sizes, you have this optical illusion effect. But something about my desire for order cannot abide by the uneven rows of the 51 stars. I can't look at that. I have to mark that one out. Then the only option is between the squashed hexagon and the circle. Neither of them are great, but if I have to pick one, I'm going to pick the circle over the squashed hexagon. Because at least you're the thing. I'm not saying the circle is good, but at least the circle evokes the Betsy Ross flag. So I feel like I can go along with that. I can go along with that. You're wrong. Okay. What do you go with that, Brady? It also, the circle has these lines forming in it. Your mind creates these weird lines like a weird person doing a star jump or something. I totally see what you're saying. And that looks worse and worse at smaller sizes. I would go with the first one. The first one with your Kindle justification I could live with. Because you say it looks disordered. But to me, there is like, there is order to it. There is method to it. But I could live with that because it's most like the current flag. I'll tell you one thing though, I think a lot of people in the US would be reasonably indifferent to the idea of Puerto Rico becoming a state until you told them it would involve changing the flag. I think the fact that it will involve changing the flag is the biggest barrier to the people of the US letting Puerto Rico in. You know what? It hadn't crossed my mind, but I think you're totally right. You could run an anti-Portarico campaign that simply took the squash hexagon flag and said, this is what America will look like if Puerto Rico joins. And it's like, boom, 97% disapproval of Puerto Rico joining America. I think that would just be over. It's the stars and strut version of flaggy flag. Now, if I had to pick, I would go with that circle one. If you had to pick, you would go with the uneven ones. I do think there is one option which I would highly approve of if you're going to 51 is to say, look, the hell with this, the hell with all these stars, let's just go back to the Betsy Ross flag with the 13 stars. I think that would be a much better decision to say we're going to stop this uneven star business. This was fine in the 1800s when we were drawing graphs of how many states we keep adding every year and isn't this a fun thing to do. It's like, but we're well beyond that now. It's been what 60s or 70 years since the last state joined the union. I don't even know. It's been forever. If you had to choose, I would be a big proponent of go back to the Betsy Ross flag with just the 13 stars. We'll leave it like that and we won't ever have to mess with this again. I think that's option one. Option two is the 52 star flag. Looks pretty good. I think at a glance, you could totally not even notice that it's different from the current US flag. I think option two is Puerto Rico can join, but we need to find somebody else as well. We need an additional state to join the union so that we can make it 52 stars. Those are my courses of action. You mean the first 52 star version on this page? I'm looking at it. The first 52 star version, it's still a little uneven, but there's something about its unevenness, which is less bothersome than the 51 star version. Right. The 51 star version is just terrible. I'm with you. Here's my thoughts on that. First up, I agree the 52 looks better than the 51 uneven. I agree it is a bit more pleasing on the eye unquestionably. But obviously you're being a bit of a silly billy and we can't have an extra state in for flag reasons. I'm going to rule out that joke. That is not a joke. I am deadly serious about that. If we have to annex somewhere, we'll annex somewhere. No, you're just being a mischief maker. Watch out British Columbia. Let's go to a situation where we do have to have 51 states. I think that the Betsy Ross flag is a very good looking flag. I think it would be a lovely flag to have. But that I think is also completely untenable because of the politics and the history involved with what the 13 stars represent. So you will never be able to push that through. So even though I have no great attachment to all that history, anyone can say that that's going to be an insurmountable problem. Yeah, 100% I agree with you on that one because every state is just going to run the campaign of, can you believe they want to remove Nebraska's star from the flag? That's outrageous. And so you're never going to win that one politically. Clearly the best solution is to have one star with 51 points. The classic 51-pointed star. I wonder if a 51-pointed star exists. Someone must have done this banner. I feel like I need to open up inkscape and do the thing where you can dynamically generate a 51-pointed star. I'm sure someone's done it on the flag, Vexalology subreddit at some point. I can't be the first person to have thought of this. I don't know Brady, it's so crazy, it's just my work. Well then it would be called the Brady Heron flag and I would be up there with the Betsy Ross. I just generated a 51-pointed star in my animation program. Wow, you are fast, my friend. How can you do that so quickly and put out so few videos? Animation is not the hardest part. Let me just quickly put it on a blue background so you get the real experience. Can you check it on with the stripes as well while you're there? I want the first time I see it to be the full experience. You know what? Actually I can do that. I can do that pretty quick. Do it. Give me two seconds. See this is the business we should have, Gray. I just sit here coming up with ideas and then you make them a reality for me. Is that what you want? You're the ideas guy and I'll do the implementation. I am the ideas guy and you're like logistics and you know. Okay, there you go Brady. I've just sent a T-Roy message. For people listening that Gray spent two hours on this. Oh no, no you haven't done it right. Oh I'm sorry, how do you want it? The spikes need to be more spiky. That just looks like a circle with a few spikes on it. Yeah, I can give you a more spiky version in two seconds. Longer spikes. Again, you're the ideas guy here. I'll implement your ideas until you are satisfied with the spikiness. Keep that as version one though Gray, so when they write the book about us they'll be able to show like the evolution of the process. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I will do that. No problem at all. That was version one. Version two on the way. I can make it even more spiky. Yeah, more spiky. I don't want there to be a circle in the middle. Yeah, okay, see it looks really weird if you take out the circle but I will go for a maximum spikiness. And then we'll put all three there and people can decide. Okay. Do you know what? I said that as a joke and it actually looks better than I expected. Anyway, let's see what the final version is like. I'm not saying it's the solution but here's the problem that we're getting into Brady is the number of pixels that are even available to show that there are 51 spokes. So here is about as spiky as I can make it where the spokes are even still visible. Okay. I don't want excuses Gray, what results? I'm just telling you man. Okay, yeah, that's, yeah, I say the problem you're having there. There's something else I can do which I kind of like hold on. I know how it is in your head but this is just a problem of 51 is so many that there isn't enough space to actually do it. Yeah, I get it right. But it's like I have that same flag in my head but you just can't really reproduce it. Yeah, I'm going to call this one the buzzsaw version of 51. No, right. Buzzsaw's not happening. Of course, that looks terrible. Yeah. I think the only one that even remotely looks good is the first most chunky one. But then what that looks like is you've stuck one of those as seen on TV labels on the flag. Right? That looks like I think the second one had potential but yes, I know what you're thinking but it just looks really weird. Very fast adjusting the number of spikes. There's just not enough space. I don't want to get too carried away because I already said it's a joke anyway but there we go. I'll put them in the show notes so people can take a look at our brains to what a 51 star flag looks like. I know. I love that we did a bit of live flag design on the podcast. You don't get that every day folks. How many other podcasts do you listen to where you get to listen to two guys deciding a flag live? Or one visionary suggesting flags and one like grunt worker doing the work. This week's episode is brought to you in part by Harry's. Harry's offers high quality razors and blades for a fraction of the price of the big razor brands. Harry's was started by two guys who wanted a better product without paying an arm and a leg. These are high quality high performing blades crafted by shaving experts giving you a better shave that respects your face and your wallet. Not only are they amazing German blades but they are a fraction of the price of the big brands. You don't have to wait around to buy them at the store for some guy to get them from behind the security counter or whatever. No, they're just delivered to your front door. Razor blades without having to go outside. It's the best. Now if you haven't tried Harry's before you should take a look at their starter set. It's an amazing deal for 15 bucks you get a razor moisturizing shave cream or gel and three razor blades. We need more blades. They're just two bucks each or less. They have great packaging, nice heavy handles and classy designs. With Harry's you get the convenience and ease of ordering online high quality blades, a great handle and shaving cream and excellent customer service at half the price of the big brands. So try out that starter set today. You know you want to just go to harries.com and use promo code each eye to get five dollars off your first purchase. Thanks to Harry's for supporting the show. Okay, Brady, I need to ask your opinion on something. Let me describe for you a situation that occurred. I'm traveling this summer, I'm out on the road and I'm trying very hard to at least vaguely stay healthy and to not balloon up and wait while you're in America, which is hard to do because the streets are paved with donuts. And hot dogs man and hot dogs. How much do I love hot dogs? They always smell good when you're walking by the hot dog vendor. Like that seems like a good idea, even if it isn't. I love a good hot dog. I love a good hot dog. So I have been trying to stay as low carb as possible, which is actually especially out in like California is way easier to do than you might imagine. Like lots of places are used to this. And one of the easiest ways to just be able to stay low carb anywhere is to just order a burger and just eat the burger part of it, don't eat the bun. So I was out having lunch with a few people and I ordered a burger and everybody else is eating. And now I'm the weirdo who's taking the top off of the burger and I'm using a knife and fork to start eating the burger itself. You are a weirdo. I have no time for people who order a burger and donate the bun, but anyway. I say wait, you see what's happening here. So before the story continues, I just need to specify something that this was a breakfast burger. So it was a burger that had eggs on top of it and it also had a kind of eggs benedict sauce on top of it. So it was an unusually messy kind of burger. With eggs and sauce on it. It's not just like, oh, I'm neatly lifting the burger out of the bun. So I'm eating the burger. I finished the burger. Do you remove the bottom bun first or do you treat the bottom bun like it's the plate and you're like cutting into it? I treated it like it was the plate and I was just cutting the burger on top of it because it would have been more trouble to try to remove this very messy burger from the bottom bun. I left the whole bottom bun intact so I didn't cut through it. I was just cutting it like it was the plate. That's some precise knife work. That's like surgical cutting through the meat but stopping before you go through the bun. I'm impressed by your knife skill. I've had much practice in doing this. So have the picture in your head. I have eaten all the meat. Yep. But there's a lot of like burger juice and egginess and sauce that's in the bun. And I took the top bun and I put it back on top. Sloppy, sloppy bun. Yeah. It's a total sloppy bun. As I'm sitting there and I'm done with this. Yep. The guy sitting across from me takes one look at what I've done. Yep. And then he says, no. Can I eat your buns? Can I eat your sloppy buns? Yeah. Are you trying to get this podcast flage? This was one of these moments in life where I feel like a situation is so strange and unexpected that my brain just doesn't... It has no previous experience here and goes into like a weird autopilot mode of how is it appropriate to be social in moments when you don't know and just air on the side of nice. So I think my brain just like flipped into that mode because it had no idea what to do. And so I said, sure. And I slided the plate across and this guy then ate my sloppy buns. With an often focal by hand. By hand. He ate it by hand. Here's the thing. I'm very sorry if person who you were is listening to this podcast, which there is a non-zero chance about this. Like, I'm very... That's what I'm thinking. Very aware that the person who did this may be listening right now. And I'm sorry to bring this up, but here's the thing. I haven't been able to stop thinking about this for more than a week now. This happened at least 10 days ago and I find myself at random moments coming back to this thought again and again like the guy wanted to eat my sloppy buns and I gave them to him. So here's what I keep coming back to. If they had been French fries, if I had ordered a burger and it came with French fries and the guy had said, can I eat your French fries? I would have said, yes, of course. Like, why not? There's no reason not to, except if I was some kind of really anti-social weirdo. Like, no, I bought these French fries. I'm not going to eat them because I want a low carb diet. I'm just going to throw them on the ground, right? So nobody can eat them. Greg, you had no choice. I understand what happened. You had no choice but to surrender the sloppy buns because clearly you weren't going to have them. And like, how could you say no? Either you had to say no and eat them yourself or you had to give them up. The thing that you did that surprises me is you didn't like confront the person who is saying, are you serious? Are you going to eat those sloppy buns? That's ridiculous. Like, you're a crazy person. Like I can't believe you didn't like call them out on it. That's what you should have done. You should have said, if you're sure if you want, but you're crazy. You seriously want to eat my sloppy buns? I was just so taken aback that I just did this automatic reflex and then I just, it can't, it will not leave my mind. The reason why I can't leave my mind is it's like, okay, the fries are unambiguous. But there feels like, I don't know how to describe it. It almost feels weirdly, personally invasive that this person ate these buns. It doesn't make any sense, right? Because we're not sharing them. All right, I'm done with them. It's not like he was gumming them and then giving them back to me and I'm going to eat them again. It's done. They're just going in the garbage. But I feel like weirdly violated in this situation in a way that I just cannot describe. I think it's all on him because I know you're pretty big on like, you know, germs and sterility and like the chain of custody of saliva and stuff. Right, right. And I think you're safe here. Well, clearly you're safe here. Yeah, that's exactly it. Like there's no germ objection that can take place in this scenario. It's just a bit of a, yeah. But the other person I think does have questions to answer in that respect, but they're probably quite comfortable with it. I mean, the buns had clearly reached a point where they had been sufficiently sullied that it seemed strange that someone was willing to attach and consume them. But that's on them. But you probably wouldn't be having these problems if you just discussed it at the time. I think you would have gotten it off your chest. Maybe that's what it is. I feel like I just, I didn't clarify enough with the situation and my brain is treating this like an open loop that it just keeps coming back to and back to. But the problem is I do kind of feel like in the future I would say no because I can't put my finger on it. But it just, it feels like some kind of personal violation has occurred. When there are other people besides you two at the table, there were other people at the table. Were glances being exchanged at the time or did anyone speak up or like was it just treated like normal or were people looking at each other going, did you just say, that he just took that guy's sloppy buns? So the way things happened is I was so fixated on what was occurring. I don't know if there were glances being directed around the table. And it just so happens that the two other people who were there, I didn't have a chance to revisit this topic with them after. The way the group broke up, it just, it just didn't work out. And so I've been discussing this with like every human being that I have met. That's right. Well, what do you think about this situation? What's spain that consensus? Because universal consensus that it's weird to ask, but that it would be wrong to say no. Right. Yeah. That seems to be the consensus. I keep circling around this idea that like if I'm ever in this scenario again, I'm going to have to make sure to stand up for myself and say no. I'm like, no, I will not give you my sloppy second buns. This is an inappropriate violation of my personal space in a way that French fries are not. What if the person says, well, no, you're not going to eat them. What do you mind me eating them? It's wasteful. But this is it. I have no good answer other than... Well, no, I'm asking you for an answer. You're in the situation. I'm challenging you on it now. What are you going to say? I think I've asked you. You've said no. What's your, I've said why? Now what do you say? You need to gain this through, man. My only answer paints me as a crazy person, which I think I will just have to bite the bullet on this one. But the answer will be, no, I paid for these buns and I'm uncomfortable with the idea of you eating them. No, you can't. That's unacceptable. Why is that unacceptable? Do you know what? You actually have the acceptable answer now because of this, because of this catharsis that you've done here. You can say, do you know what? I know I should say yes, but this has happened to me once before and after it happened, it became such a difficult thing. I even made a whole podcast if I said about it, which you can listen to if you like. But for that reason, for that reason and how it would affect to be the previous time, I'm going to have to respectfully and regretfully say, keep your hands off my sloppy buns.