H.I. No. 130: Remember Harder

"Remember Harder"
	Hello Internet episode
Episode no.	130
Presented by	CGP Grey; Brady Haran;
Original release date	October 29, 2019
Running time	1:33:33
Sponsors	Eero; Hover; Away;
External links	Official webpage; Reddit discussion;
Episode chronology
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	List of Hello Internet episodes

"H.I. #130: Remember Harder" is the 130th episode of Hello Internet, released on October 29, 2019.

Website synopsis[edit | edit source]

Episode 130 on the podcast YouTube channel

"Grey and Brady discuss: skyscrapers, what it's like in your head, iPhone trypophobia, Brady gets an Apple Watch, AirBnB revisited, the final trailer for the final Star Wars, and The Game Changers."^[1]

Release and commercial performance[edit | edit source]

"Remember Harder" was released to podcast clients on October 29, 2019.^[2] The corresponding video was published on the Hello Internet YouTube channel on the same day and received 22 thousand views within its first two weeks of release.^[3] Its audio is set to footage of a head of broccoli slowly rotating in front of a black background.

Transcript

I met MSRI in Berkeley and I had a bit of a set up nightmare because I had cables missing and then FaceTime wouldn't work on my computer and I Was missing connectors like I don't know I just was really ill prepared and I went and saw like the tech guy here and said can I have some gaff tape? Because I was gonna gaff tape my microphone to a tripod. Yep, because I didn't have the connector and he turns out He said oh have you not seen our microphone stands and took me to this back room and they've got this incredible collection of brilliant microphone stands here So I was like at least I had one win. I've actually learned that as a little bit of a tip where If you're staying at a hotel and that hotel has a conference room You can often rely on them for back up for a microphone stand There's a few hotels that I stay out where I now know that They can have a regular sized microphone stand and so I I don't have to rely on Building up a little pile of chairs and then putting the microphone on the top and some books over the microphone to try to keep it in place at Some kind of reasonable height pro tip because you're coming via my phone for FaceTime because I can't get FaceTime on my computer because my OS is so old right So you're coming in that way and then I'm recording on like a zoom like a handheld podcast recorder that I use right And I want to be able to listen to that so that I know something goes wrong with the sound like if The phone starts interfering with or something so I want to have the headphones from that as well. So I've got So the irony as I was explaining my setup to you just then was that it fired I'm back. Yes, in the in the middle of recording I get a stop stop no seriously stop from Brady His SD card filled up SD card for the one thing I didn't think of So as I think as I was saying I've got like my phone and the zoom operating at the same time But I want to be able to hear from both so I've got a pair of like little Apple headphones in my ears And then I've got a pair of big headphones over the top of that so I've double stacked my headphones in both ears So I'm going to put his headphones at once. I've definitely pulled that same trick on the road Yeah, like Bose headphone over one ear Apple ear pod in the other one because it's the only way to hear yourself and hear the person you're talking to Oh, God, oh going I'm living the dream living the nightmare. Yeah, I'm gonna say that's you're living the nightmare there Yeah, I've just been trying to rework all of my equipment and my watchword for equipment that I'm purchasing is like Simplicity and compatibility like I want the least number of wires and the least number of different kinds of wires That has been my target for trying to redo my system. I did the same thing on this trip I was like okay I'm not gonna take a thousand bags. I'm sick of being this like video Sherpa with a thousand different things stacked on my back So I said no if I don't think I need it I'm not taking it and there's always that one cable or that one thing you're missing in my case is about four of them Yeah, I mean even even when I see you in London like when you've just come back from filming something I am always Shocked by how much equipment you have even for an objectivity video like you come down with a lot of stuff You should see it when I go and do the chemistry ones. I actually literally fill the back of my huge car up with like thermal cameras and high-speed cameras and GoPro's and DSLR's and it's crazy. How many cameras do you think you take on a chemistry shoot? I'm at least to eight already in my head. Cheers Well, that's not going to be a surprise then if you're coming with that kind of equipment and you're trying to cut it down You're going to have the problem of running out of cables. Yeah, and that's without podcasting Yeah, I think you need to start Ground zero with a brand new checklist of what is the simplified Travel list of everything you need and otherwise you're always going to be in trouble with that I think the main thing we need to keep in mind is we need to kick today's episode reasonably short I also think we're a miracle of people end up hearing this this will be even rarer than you know a vinyl or a wax addition If this one actually gets to people's ears considering the number of obstacles standing between it and them but They has plow on we have said it many times But I am already gaming this in my head is like I think this episode has a 50 50 chance of making it You know, we'll see yeah, but so you are at MSRI the spiritual home of number file Yeah, I am I'm here for a couple of weeks doing my usual stuff doing bits and pieces There was a public event on the weekend and like I did a little talk there and lots of teams came along So I got to meet lots of people wanted to talk about hello internet that that was nice some hot stoppers were exchanged Do you give out hard stoppers in your person? I'm not a big fan of like the hot stopper hand over. I'm more a believer in the hot drop But I did have a small number in my pocket and it does create this interesting situation because lots of people ask for one And I don't necessarily want to just hand one over and it does create like you know an interaction But sometimes I do want to hand one over because you know they've told me a special story or they've brought along a gift or You know, there's a reason where I think oh this is a special interaction. This is hot stopper worthy Mm-hmm. So I have to find a way to give them a hot stopper without other people saying the hot stopper being handed over and creating like a frenzy Like I'll look the other way and say just reach down down next to my leg and I'll hand it like I do this like discrete hand over so that other people can't say it happening. That's nice Just when the listeners thought Hot stop drops can't seem anymore like drug deals. Yeah, he's now in person Handing over hot stoppers with like a subtle handshake It's funny you should say that because one guy asked for one and it was the end of the day So I thought I'd give him one but I thought it was against the spirit to just hand it over So I said look I believe in a hot drop not a hot stopper hand over So just watch me and I walked over to the other side of the courtyard and just put it down on the ground And walked away so he could go and walk up and go and pick it up in front of me So it was almost like there was like because in case there was police surveillance I didn't want to be caught like actually handing over the goods That also feels like a very rules lawyer sort of thing to do of yeah, you know Oh, you have to give me a dollar so we have client privilege. Yeah, that's what that sounds like there Yeah, it was it was good. It's interesting to hear you say that because It has been my feeling that like You can create weird incentives with this sort of thing and it's like yes, it's why I have Loved the hot stop drop because one of the key features of that is I'm not there when people are going to look for right the hot stop drop goes up long after I've been gone and I know a few youtubers who In the earlier parts of their careers have had ideas like Oh, I'm gonna give people a challenge coin whenever they find me in real life And won't that be a fun audience interaction and my advice has always been dude It's fun at the start But it won't be fun if your channel keeps growing And like at some point this becomes a life-ruining thing of like don't give people An incentive to find you and interrupt you in the real world like you don't want to do this And I've had a few people blow me off and they all come back and they're eventually like that was a terrible idea I don't know why did that I think you're a bit harsh and I do like people coming up and talking to me and stuff But you're right if you if you actually made it something where people would like Be super proactive. I could see that could be a problem if they start scaling buildings to get into your office and stuff like that. Yeah It's a very different situation if you've given a talk at the spiritual home of number file But I don't mind someone coming up to me at like Starbucks as well and saying hello. I'm all right with that I'd much rather than do that than just quietly watch me and not tell me while I pick my nose and stuff hot dogs in my mouth or something You know, I'd like to know one thing watch So at least come up and say hello. I mean, I guess if those are the only two choices But it feels like there's a big spectrum that could exist between those two things You could also just be out in public and being quiet and under undermining your own business Yeah, but yeah, so there we go Brady is the one if you want to try to get a hot stop in person He might be able to wiggle around the rules Don't ask me for a hot stopper in person You would normally get a no and in fact you will always get a no from now on now that we've discussed this I have to make it a blanket. No, yeah, it's a little bit like my rule for Uber drivers that if the Uber driver Ask for five stars. They're now getting four stars. That's what's gonna happen That's just spiteful. No, I don't think that's spiteful because it's the same thing of like you know what? I don't want to encourage behavior where All the drivers are gonna ask me for five stars. It's like hey man, you were so close But you just tripped right before the finish line and like asking for five stars. That's four star behavior That's what that is. What about when we say hey everyone Will you please consider supporting hello internet on patreon? Well, no, I'm not supporting your patreon because you ask That's up to the listeners if they want to support us on patreon or not if you want to miss out on goodbye internet That's your problem. Yes, that is true But also do you remember Brady what happened when we asked for five star reviews on iTunes? Yeah, inundation of three star reviews that we got so we were on the receiving end of that yeah fair enough Right, we said like oh five star reviews are great. No one pays attention to three star and like three star reviews as far as the I could see we need to agree on whether or not it's a hot stop drop or a hot drop because I prefer the term hot drop But you seem to always call it a hot stop drop Hot stop drop is funnier isn't it? I feel like hot stop drop is funny to say yeah, but hot drop is cooler But hot stop drop is funnier But also it's not cold a hot stop. It's a hot stopper. Right, but hot stop drop is fun. Like it's bop bop bop right? You hardly even need the words. It's like bop bop bop. It's entertaining. I think hot drop is better. Hmm Hot drop would catch on more easily. We don't need it to catch on we are the controllers of hot stop drops So do you know what funnily enough? I have a note of something I wanted to bring up today Fits in with this because you know how you know, I don't mind the odd coining of a word right? Yes, I know that and I was thinking of like Cool words that I wish I'd coined. What are words that have been coined that are like awesome And I came up with the coinage or the word or the nickname The thing that I think is the coolest thing and I wish I'd come up with it because it's amazing I've read a bit about it, but I haven't been able to get to the bottom of it But I'll tell you what I think the coolest word is. Okay Sky scraper. Yeah Sky scraper is pretty good. What a cool name that is for what it describes. It is cool Although you'd probably want it to be a sky-py die scraper because it's bop bop bop. Yes, that's correct That's what I that's exactly pretty You know the internal workings of my mind so well tell me something cooler than sky scraper. I don't think there could be no The key to that is the scraper part Yes, because it feels like if this word didn't exist and you ran a simulation of the universe a bunch of times You would not very often land in the world Where scraper was part of the name to describe this thing Yeah, it's like that's what makes it cool is it's non-obvious and yet really descriptive and like in a really like Emotive way the idea of scraping against the sky and stuff like it's really clever But yeah, you would never have thought of it. You said you looked into it Do you know when the origin of the word was like there must be to be honest It ended up being a deeper rabbit hole than I actually thought so it's not like some dude in his podcast in 1910 was Talking to his ghost and they were just throwing out words and this one stuck called greetings parchment Because the definitions changes it used to be like ten story buildings were called sky scrapers Like the mighty black stump was once the sky scraper by some definitions, but But I don't think you can scrape the sky if you just have a like a stumpy top It's all relative though if you've never seen anything bigger like that's as much as you can imagine scraping the sky It's only later on that it started saying Stumpy yeah, perhaps I think like the like the Empire State Building is the sky scraper because it also ends in a point like Sky scraper is it should be pointy no, they don't have to be pointy. I don't agree with that They have to have 40 floors these days and be told of them 150 meters Okay, so yes according to Wikipedia here It says the first time referred to buildings with 10 to 20 floors in the 1880s Yeah I just love sky scrapers. We should do a podcast is to bet sky scrapers. I could do that like I follow What is it like the sky scraper news website which is a like new sky scraper is that appear in the world The problem with that like with all news is it so speculative most of the stuff that's discussed Somehow never really comes to pass and I'll remember like oh, what happened to that cool building like oh now Planning was approved. It was never actually built. I'm just looking at random a random article that I do not vouch for in any way That says before the woods sky scraper described enormous buildings It was used to describe anything that stood out you could refer to a tall man or a high-standing horse. I don't know That's internet nonsense. There is no way that's true look at that guy over there. He's a sky scraper I refused to believe that that is that is nonsense I require like a primary source on that one that is sources for the first issues of sky scraper I'm clear the oldest confirmed reference in print was in the Chicago daily This is 1883 look. I know all the historians already don't like me and this is where I'm also going to get all the linguists Really angry because don't forget teachers Yes, well, it's a teacher teachers goes without saying but Like all of this word origin stuff always to me seems like ridiculous, you know, I'm like oh Here's what the word originally meant and here's where like what are your sources? It's like so tenuous so much of the time trying like trace back a bunch of this stuff and this sounds already to me like one of these examples of oh We have a newspaper from 1880 and that's the first time we can find it and what is it before then? Oh, I found out where that quote came from about the horse and the tall person. Okay. Oxford English dictionary Are they reliable though? I don't know As a word for a row tall man Gerard Pete points out the Italian word grata cellia meaning scraping the sky No, no, but no, this is like this is again as one of the little tricks Italian word for skyscraper was used since the 13th century So the whatever the Italian word is for skyscraper was also used to a tall person Yeah, but you see this trick that's just been pulled here. It's not that we in English Use the word skyscraper for a tall person. It seems to be tied in with a history of top hats What I'm enjoying about this is like Breathing on the other end is having his fun other internet. I'm just furious. Yeah, it's just whatever whatever I find Well, that's you know what the subreddit for people get in there Tell us every single thing you know about the words skyscraper and who invented it. Yeah. I mean sure Although you know what here's the thing you know how we discussed sparkly water last time which Apparently caused some kind of civil war on the internet as far as I could tell like Boy were people on either sides of this And I made this off-handed remark about I can't taste the bitterness in water that people are mentioning the sparkly water Yeah, and I swear since the subreddit put it into my head now every time I drink sparkly water. I'm thinking Is it bitter and I think I can taste it now But I don't know how much of this is actually just the internet getting into my head versus An attuned sensitivity to a particular taste that I just never thought to associate with it before But it's driving me crazy now every time I drink sparkly water and sometimes I'm like oh, I don't know it is I think it is better. I think I can taste that versus no man It's just read it got into your head like they got into your head and they planted this idea and it's not really there And all you're doing is just enjoying the bubbles. There's no bitterness here at all Do you know what I'm starting to have that with what reading for the first time? I'm starting to think Can I hear my voice reading to me? I think you've got into my head with that It's like it's like there's this new guy in my head going hey Brady. It's Brady. I'm here to read to you I'm like what the hell are you doing here? Where did you come from? I managed to go 40 ideas without you reading to me. I don't need you here now. Oh my god. Okay This is fascinating to me really like I'm starting to think is happening. Okay. It's the same thing though. I think it's like psychological like Now that this is one unlike a taste thing which should in theory Mostly just be a chemical process You can develop a more sensitive palette, but ultimately this should be a side effect of a real thing in the world so sub vocalization which I first brought up with you forever ago on hello internet And is one of my favorite things to bring up with people because you always get interesting responses Like do you hear a voice in your head when you're thinking or when you're reading? Hmm. I would imagine that what's happening to you is very possible that if If there's two teams there's sub vocalizers and non-sub vocalizers that the sub vocalizers could totally corrupt the non-sub vocalizers That if this idea gets into your head That do you hear a voice when you're reading That maybe it could actually start to boot up the voice in your head when you're reading and it is Totally fascinating to me just the way you just described that that it feels like like it's an intruder Yeah, I mean is that an act is that accurate? Is that how you really would describe it? It's like a new thing and and not all the time It's just funnily enough. It's just been the last couple of weeks a couple of times of I've been suddenly conscious of it for just like a minute or two and I'm like What that what oh Was it always there? Mm-hmm. I don't know. Okay. Is it your voice or is it just a voice? I think it's me. I don't know I don't want to talk about it. You're messing with my head man. That's fair enough I want to do nothing but talk about it and I want to hear about the like the reddits experiences with this I've got something to talk about that. We'll start you way more than that No, no before we before we move on there is one other question that I I have to ask about this It won't be sublimalizing, but it's it's a similar thing. So okay. I have really become Fascinated with this concept of The the differences between people's brains that we don't necessarily think of and I think this is potentially one of those And I came across another one Which blew my mind and I was like I don't understand how anyone can even think this and it's the question of When you remember something so like Brady You're thinking about how you traveled to California Mm-hmm when you're remembering oh, I got on the plane and whatever How is that pictured in your head first person as I saw like a recording from my eyes? No Fuck away really Yeah, so you Okay, cuz I okay. What do you see yourself like can you say the back of your head in your memories? Okay, wait hold on this is just unbelievable to me because I came across this one And I got into an argument with someone where I was like Nobody has memories from the first person perspective Like a first person shooter that's crazy who could even do that And so this this is another one of these things that I just bumped across and of course you my dear podcast and co-host See things from the first perspective And I thought you were going to be on my side So do you see like do you see the back of your head in your memories or like can you see what your back looks like And your face looks like So the the problem I have is it's very difficult to articulate What is it that I'm Seeing when I do something like that like oh If I remember what I did yesterday I don't have something that's like a clear image that I could describe to you or that I could draw on a piece of paper It's much closer to something that's like an idea of what I did yesterday And it's much less like an image And so this is part of why When someone was telling me that their memories are basically as clear as a first person shooter Out of their eyes when they think about what they were up to I would say that second level though, Gray. Okay. What do you mean? Like if you asked me to recall something It's not like I'd go back and watch the tape right? Yeah, I'm not saying that you're saying that So my memories aren't always like that But if I then need to go to the next level and remember hard I like what was that actually like what did it look like like that's when I go to the tape and I start seeing things through First person shooter. Yeah, that's what this other person was telling me about yeah was doing that trick of Oh, well, how did you get here remember like who was on the underground line with you kind of thing? And it's like yeah, there's no version of this which is a harmonious looking out the windows of my eyes at the world Like it's it's just is totally strange and and this has been my latest one of of bugging people like when you remember something Is it from your own perspective? Does that mean you can look at your face and your memories if you chose to like see that to see What your reaction that's exactly the kind of question of first person thinker would ask and like I don't even know how to How to articulate an answer to that that like the straight up answer would be no I'm convinced this is the same as sub vocalization. I'm convinced we do the same thing We just interpret it and describe it differently And the more we talk to each other about it the more we start finding that common ground And that's why for the first time I'm starting to think maybe I do sub vocalize I think we all do the same thing We just grapple with it different ways like this is totally the fascinating thing about this topic to me because you could be 100% correct that Brains are all basically doing the same thing And that there's like a language problem here That's something about the way language is constructed in each of our heads leads us to think that we're doing Stuff that's wildly different I'm going to make another call again to the audience which I think I did the last time this came up and was unsatisfied with the result But I want to know if anybody Has or has done or knows of any kind of brain studies Of like someone in an MRI machine reading a book like can you see a different pattern in different people I would be very curious to know Yes or no answer on that because I'm just sort of fascinated by this topic My gut feeling is that there are these differences That we just don't really think of between people But I'm very open to the possibility that you are right that the brains are actually all basically the same and there's like a communication problem That's occurring here But anyway, just like do you remember things from your eyes was the latest one of these that I've bumped across and I would love to hear if anybody can think of other examples of this or if anyone can find some studies saying This is totally nonsense or confirming it Let me ask you this then I know it's a no it's not your favorite topic in the world Do you dream in the first person? So it is interesting that you ask me that because I don't normally remember my dreams But just this morning I did wake up and I had a very clear memory of a dream Hmm which of course hits all of the bullet points of like things I hate in a dream when someone tells you about them because it was like oh I was trying to escape from the school that I used to work in but it was also the town that I grew up in as like You know all of this this total nonsense which is like that's my favorite thing about dreams and you always describe But so well is the way that Places and people suddenly change in a way that makes the story sound crap like it's I was talking to Tom Cruise Suddenly he wasn't Tom Cruise suddenly he was Woody Allen. It's like yeah, that always makes his story sound so rubbish It is the fundamental nature of dreams Which is that like the borders of everything is very confusing But so I had a very strongly remembered dream of trying to escape from a place And it was not first person at all. It's the same kind of thing a sort of Theoretical third person it is not out of my eyes Like I see myself running that kind of thing. You see yourself. Okay. You're outside yourself. Yeah But you can't see yourself like you can't see what you look like. It's not like you can say oh look I like that blue shirt. I'm wearing looks nice again. This is the way dreams are strange like my theory and when someone remembers that they had a great idea in a dream That what I'm convinced is actually occurring is the part of your brain that recognizes great ideas is active Separate from the actual idea right So I think the probably the closest I could describe it is like I have a third person camera view in the dream of the situation And there's an idea of me in the center But like when you ask the question do like you see your own face. I would have to say no. I don't that's the way it is but It's very clearly not first person That's a much stronger and much easier statement to make do you dream in the first person? Yeah That's what I would expect from you. Yeah, pay attention when you go to bed tonight Brady and report back on your dreams That's the feedback that I want for the next episode of the show We all know the great tragedy of modern Wi-Fi freed from wires we can go anywhere in our house well Almost anywhere Because we all know which rooms and which areas or even just behind which wall are the dead Wi-Fi zones The places where you just can't get any of that precious internet Where we no longer Ero is here to rescue you euro is the Wi-Fi your home deserves The all-new euro starting at just 99 dollars blankets your whole home with fast reliable Wi-Fi Eliminating those dead spots and diminishing those buffering problems No matter where you go with euro You can have a constantly strong signal in your house an euro sets up in just minutes It plugs right into your modem or router box and you manage it from a dead simple app You can also use this app if you want to enforce a little bit of downtime in your life say by cutting off the internet during dinner And it can keep your network secure by giving you an alert if any new device is trying to get on your home network So banish that buffering get beautiful internet everywhere in your house with euro And you can get yours fixed as soon as tomorrow Go to euro.com slash hello internet and enter code hello internet at checkout to get free Overnight shipping with your order. That's eero.com slash hello internet code hello internet at checkout to get your euro delivered With free overnight shipping But you must use that exact URL euro.com slash hello internet code hello internet Thanks to Ero for supporting the show and thanks to Ero for blanketing everyone's home in beautiful consistent Wi-Fi So great I want to talk about Apple products right okay, but don't skip everyone don't press skip I know some people don't like we talk about Apple products. Okay, but I have I there's something I want to you about that I think is exciting. Okay. First of all I want to talk about the new iPhone the is it the 11? Yeah, yeah the 11 I got one right I was doing you phone my battery was dying on my old one so I've upgraded and I've got like my snazzy iPhone 11 Hmm Can I say I'm sorry if this has already been everywhere and there's a thousand websites and red it's about it And I'm sure it's been talked about because there's nothing new under the sun But I have to discuss it. Can you tell me if this has been a big thing about this phone That new look on the back With all the cameras and the flash and the little mini cameras and things like that There were five holes on the back of mine as I look at it If that doesn't trigger Tripofobs. I don't know what can that is so menacing and holy looking it looks like it belongs on the Tripophobia subreddit don't you think and they're putting it on billboards all the time I'm in San Francisco at the moment. It's on all the billboards everywhere. They're like they're really making that The brand and the look of the phone. It's always a close-up of this menacing three-eyed raven looking out at us at at us all It's all holy and black. I think it's freaky looking. I think it's sinister Now it's interesting because I do keep up with the Tripophobia world and I haven't actually seen this Discuss like if you're worried that you're stumbling upon a topic that has been discussed to death for the past month Hmm. I have not seen that Hmm. Have you got one? I've got one right in front of me. You looking at looking into it's freaky tripophobic face right now. So It doesn't strike that for me. I don't have that feeling But what I can say is my wife got one as well. So having been on the receiving end of a photograph being taken with it Hmm. It does feel very Intense. I'm very aware of really being looked at by the machine when you're on the end of that or It does make me think a little bit sometimes it in a like in a movie scene You'll see someone going to a press conference and there's like a semi-circle of cameras around them all focused on the person It's like a little paparazzi in one. Yeah, it's a little paparazzi in one and Having it on the black Square I suspect helps reduce the tripophobia maybe it like contains the thing a little bit But it does make it really prominent and really imposing When you're on the receiving end of of the camera, but you're getting the tripophobia jitter is from it. Here we go I've got an article here unexpectedly It is having an inadvertent side effect with the new camera system of triggering people's tripophobia First spotted by CNN tripophobia is the fear of patterns or clusters of small holes or bumps As you may have noticed the iPhone 11 pro's camera does look like three tiny holes This is accentuated by Apple keeping the glass around the lens as White gold and green to measure the rest of the phone space grey hides the pattern better. I've got space grey So so has has come up hmm Maybe it's because I have the black one as well. So maybe that's why it seems less I have actually I mean, I guess my wife doesn't have the black one, but I haven't particularly noticed But I could imagine it's worse on a colored phone Yeah, they say if you do have tripophobia best to stick with the space grey model I think it's very tripophobic. I think it's very like nasty there's something about three as well like because you know two was okay because it's like eyes It's friendly Like headlights are friendly, but three is like Oh, well, it's the odd it's an odd number any of the odd numbers is gonna be a little bit like Maybe when they go to four or You know if they have five they should put it in like the pattern that the dice have for it's like a little Oh, it's a little flower something nice and symmetrical, but it's the it's the sort of off-axis triangle of three. It certainly does Draw the eye. Yeah, I'm said there was a few articles about it around the place part of looks of it So it is it has been a thing so um if you have tripophobia and you're listening and You get freaked out by the new phone. Let us know because I would like to hear from people about this because I'm very interested in it But my phone is not the only Apple product that I have purchased in recent times. Okay. I got an Apple watch No way, okay, okay. Yeah, why? Why did you get an Apple watch? Well This is me immediately not trusting wherever the story is going. No, no, no, there's no trickery or anything coming here. It was a okay It was an impulse purchase And it was an impulse purchase based on like Fitness okay, so it was like just trying to find new ways to grapple with motivating myself for fitness Okay, okay, I've seen a few in action and had a few conversations and I like tracking my runs Which I've always done with my phone But then my wife got me a heart monitor like a band to put on and I was getting a lot of enjoyment out of looking at my heart rate on my runs But I didn't like having to take my phone on a run and I didn't like having to put this heart rate monitor all the time And then get the data off the heart rate monitor onto my phone and it wasn't integrated with My running app and so it was just all getting a bit faffy Mm-hmm And then there were a few other things about you know having my steps and activity track during the day and I thought I'm gonna try Oh wow, I'm gonna try so I bought one Are you are you wearing it all the time then you're not just wearing it for workouts? Well, I did for a few weeks Okay, and I feel like I'm going back to just wearing it on runs now So it's becoming just a running device, but I did work for a few weeks as my operational watch and I had lots of thoughts about it I didn't write them down because I'm so disorganized because you know this podcast has been recorded kind of in under An unusual circumstances I wanted to have like a big list of notes So I'm gonna have to do it off the top of my head a bit But I can remember some of my impressions. Yeah, I'm looking for the Brady review We already know that it wasn't Overwhelmingly universally positive because you're trending back towards using it for just exercise Mm-hmm, which is a thing that I know several people do they have a watch and they just use it for exercise And they don't use it as a regular tracker. I just put it on when I go for a run now So let me give you yeah, I'll give you my review. Mm-hmm So I still don't love the way it looks Not that's always been my biggest problem I've always thought of watches as like a piece of jewelry right as decorative as much as functional I do use it to tell the time did you get the the newest one like the one with the always on screen? I got the newest one. I did get it with the always on face which I switched off after about a day Because I didn't like having it on all the time word color and material did you get? I got the stainless steel one Okay, and I got like The sports band that's kind of made of a velcroy light gray. Yes, okay. Yeah, the velcro sports band Okay, great. Just wanted to have it in my head for what you were what you were talking about. I thought that was the best look I like how it feels on my wrist. I don't like how it looks And because everyone wears them I almost feel kind of a bit embarrassed by like a bit cringy that I'm wearing the same watches everyone else I don't like that. So that was a feeling I didn't like but Some of the things you spoke about when you were singing the watchers praises to me and telling me why you liked it Did resonate with me? Okay, like what I loved the way It changed my relationship with my phone So there were so many little things I could now do without getting out my phone And I was always a bit dismissive of you saying that you know How hard is it to reach into your pocket and get out your phone? And that is true. It's not hard to get out your phone to check in any mile or check the weather But it did stop me then getting sucked into the more of Then having a look at Twitter and seeing what was going on with sports results and all those sort of things It stopped me going to a place of great distraction that's bad for my brain If I'm desperately waiting for a text or an email and that's all I'm waiting for I could just go and have a look and say no, I haven't got the email yet from Sally So It's fine. I don't need to now check Twitter. In fact, I can't check Twitter Also things like changing the volume on the podcast I'm listening to It's quite nice. I can be lying in bed and have my phone on like the bedside table and not have to go and Light it up like a Christmas tree just to change the volume and things like that I can just reach to my wrist and Gently turn a little dial and turn the volume down skip to the next track Things like that Checking the weather I became obsessed with checking the weather because I made dark sky one of my like complications So I liked that the thing that I thought I would like the most Failed me and this is the reason I don't wear it anymore if this was better I would still be wearing it probably and that is the rings you know filling the rings of activity like have I stood up and have I'd walked enough and have I done that That was really important to me and I got really into it But they're so generic and Uncustomizable they feel useless to me Because I feel like they've just set these arbitrary numbers that aren't applicable to my life Like you have to stand up for this many hours you have to do this many calories You have to do the and I'm like that's too low for me or that's too high for me And I want to be able to like adjust it to my life And I find the fact they're very unadjustable Pointless and it became this game. I was playing every day to fill these rings that felt Silly and yeah, like I say arbitrary Because they made it so that I could change the numbers on that I might even start putting it back on I don't know where they're coming up with these numbers I felt like I was chasing some stupid goal that sometimes was too easy sometimes was too hard and didn't Yeah, and they also started then messing with my brain a bit in a way I didn't like because it's 12 stand hours It's 30 exercise minutes and then the calorie one will adjust on a weekly basis based on what you're doing But my frustration even with that one which is adjustable is Even after all of these years apple is still really dumb about those adjustments as in It will be a ratchet that will just turn up to infinity as far as I can tell that If I keep hitting the targets they suggest it's just going to keep increasing the goal by 10% Until I'm supposed to be burning a million calories in the day and That seems very strange my least favorite ones are the stand reminders which I just found annoying and interruptive And also if I have a day where I have to sit down a lot, you know, sorry that just sometimes happens Suddenly, I don't fill a ring and then I'm a failure and it's like oh yeah I agree if I don't wear my watch if I don't wear the watch for a few hours I miss my goal that day. I don't feel the ring I'm you know because I'm such a completionist about these things and a little bit like competitive Yeah, like Suddenly if I break a streak For reasons that I don't think I should be held against me and I'm like, no, I'm getting out of my life The same reason I don't play board games. Yes, because it's bad for me I will agree with that in that It's too strict You want to complete everything all the time Means exactly this of like oh one morning I got up and I forgot to put on the watch for two hours So I missed a stand ring by one hour Now my entire streak is done like is that really then some attitude is to be a pitch-alent child So I'm not playing a game at all then and I stop working the watch Yeah, or another thing that I found Frustrating is I've been very good with you know, increasingly amount of just exercise that I do over the past You know while we've been recording the podcast that's going from like nothing to being a person who exercises semi-regularly to regularly But it doesn't mean that I exercise every single day And so the like the variance in the days is quite high And it would be the same thing of like hey, but into the gym four times this week But one of the days I didn't quite hit the calorie goal that's averaged over my highest day so like It's interesting to hear you say that because I still love the watch But I think maybe it was Last year when I got my new one and was setting up my watch face I gave up entirely on the idea of even having the rings on the screen like I just decided like I like this device for other reasons But even pretending to keep track of who have I filled my activity ring today I think was not giving me any Real benefits and it never really progressed from the initial state of what it was so It sounds like you came to that conclusion a lot faster than I did of like these rings are not actually Yeah, useful to me as an individual person. I find the Switching itself on you know how like it switches itself on when you Go to look at it. Mm-hmm. And I always said is that reliable does that always work? And you're like yeah Yeah, yeah, it's fine. You showed me you know your million times and it always switches on I find that doesn't always work for me Quite often I'll go to look at it. There must be something about the way I look at a watch That it doesn't recognize or like all the time I think what happens is very often when I look at a watch I look at the watch in situ I kind of go to the mountain rather than have You know the mountain come to me sort of thing like So I often look at my watch without moving my wrist very much So I find every time I look at my watch if I'm wearing the Apple watch I have to do this exaggerated tip of my wrist to look at it that feels very unnatural to me like you're looking at the watch in a cartoon Right, like oh look at me checking the time. Yeah, you're right. I have to do this big cartoon You just you to look at it that that I don't like and another thing is Sometimes if I Ticulate my wrist so imagine bringing the back of your hand back towards your arm like your arm How does that even happen? What do you mean basically what I'm saying is I sometimes press the button on the watch with the back of my hand How far does your hand bend that's horrifying how How can well maybe I wear my watch closer to my hand than you but I can do it happens all the time My watch is directly up against that little wrist bone that everybody has to mark where he's this I find it very easy to press the the crown. I think your wrist double joint it is what we're learning that's terrifying Not at all. It's not I'm not pressing it with like you know up near my knuckles It's just down near the where the hand first joins the arm. It's around there that kind of bit is doing the pressing Hmm, I mean, I'll take your word for that. I guess I just liked it because it was novel for a while and in the end I just I also happened to get a new watch recently that I've been waiting for for like a year and a half like a last posh watch That finally got made and delivered. Hmm. So that kind of also has You know got me back into nice watches, but yeah, and and that is what the watch is always going to be competing against is Either people who don't want to wear something on their wrist or A real nice quality watch like it has to be able to go up against Those sorts of devices and yeah, I think it's totally legit that if you get a new watch that you've been waiting for That's a real moment of truth for the Apple watch of like do you stand up to a new shiny Very nice watch that a person can wear and so I can see that that especially for you it might lose its It's luster in those moments. Well, they don't care. They got my money now anyway So you know job done for them. They don't care if I wear it or not. Yeah, but at some point they'd want you to buy a new one right Like everything is a subscription service even physical things that you buy if it stays my exercise device They might have me. We'll see how we go another thing happened to me on a run the other day though I was running and I was wearing the watch But I forgot that I could adjust the volume of what I was my music via the watch and I had my phone in my pocket on this run So I did what I always do when I'm running like I didn't reach into my pocket. I just you In while it was inside my pocket. I tried to press the volume buttons Yeah, yeah through the cloth of my pocket. You can do pretty easily. I always do that. I adjust the volume But there's something so are there something freaky? Shappened or there's something about the new layout of buttons on the 11 But I reached into my phone I grasped the phone. I pressed what I thought was the up volume button And suddenly this this loud claxon sounded in the street And I called the emergency services Yeah, I always like and I had my headphones in and suddenly it started ringing And I was desperately reaching into my pocket and I pulled out the phone It said we are ringing the emergency services And there was a button that said cancel and I was trying to press it and I was missing it or something was going on And I couldn't stop the call I was like suddenly the touch screen on the phone wasn't like was working properly And before I could cancel the call the emergency services like I answered and I met a my run with my headphones going This is the emergency services. What do you want? And I was like oh my god. I'm so sorry. I called my mistake And he's like it's okay. Do you want me to end the call? And I'm like yes I'm so sorry I was just imagining someone was dying somewhere because I was diverting resource See no problems at all You caught by accident did you have no problems? I think what happens in those moments because I have seen many a person and I have myself triggered that emergency mode is It's scary. It's not that your phone the screen stops working or anything. It's like The panic makes it impossible to do even the most normal thing right? Yeah Even if they made the whole bottom half of the screen you'd be a gigantic press here once to stop the call button No one could do it because you're just you're so flustered. I'm sure it was the phone. I'm pressing it I'm pressing it Nothing's happening was my hand sweaty was my hand too sweaty. I don't know but I was sure I was pressing it So I'd be from the nerves of like I like oh, I don't mean to be impinging upon the emergency services like it's a terrible feeling and Yes, they've changed it a couple of times which also makes it a little bit harder remember like what is the thing What you may have done is I think it's like an old way to do it was pressing Both of the volume buttons like five times in succession and you may have done something like that or They've changed a few times. I know that the one of the current ways is just like squeezing the phone so that you're pressing buttons on both sides That's what I think I did. Okay, so maybe you did use the modern the the current method But yes, that is absolutely terrifying what happens So I was trying to keep it a secret from you that I had the watch because I wanted to like you know tell you on the podcast right And I almost blew it twice. Okay One of the ways was not immensely likely to get to you because someone posted a picture of me on Twitter where I was wearing it I was gonna see it but then no one even noticed right so anyway That was unlikely to get you but the other way it nearly happened was when we recorded the last podcast just before we started recording That was like the second or third day. I'd had it I did that thing with the back of my hand And I activated Siri and Siri started talking to me and you heard on the microphone you said was that was that Siri or something and I said Yeah, I don't know what I did and you know, I just brushed it off And you obviously just assumed it was my phone or something I don't know what Siri with the watch watch Siri and I'd done it with the back of my hand And it was the first time I'd ever done it and I was while I was literally talking to you on a microphone Well, I'm glad you were able to keep it under cover. It's an interesting surprise that you've done it and it's It's funny because on my like list of couple things to bring up I didn't mention it last time and I also just had it for this episode but A thing that we discussed years ago when we first talked about getting an Apple watch and one of my theories is that Given enough time something like this can become a little bit Health inevitable Like my marker is if they start doing like blood glucose monitoring This starts crossing into the threshold of it will just become a vital health accessory It won't really be a question of Esthetic preferences if it becomes truly life extending. Yeah, or just like the ability to monitor a bunch of health vitals that together can give you some Genuine real insight into health and a way that they're not there now But one of the things that I that I thought I think we also mentioned is the very first insurance companies are starting to offer decreased premiums for Apple watchwares and it's it's like This starts to feel like the beginning of that kind of thing of The difference between like an insurance benefit and an insurance penalty is a real like how do you want to look at it Kind of thing and I just I thought it was interesting that some actuary somewhere was like oh no We can make this work like if people are Apple watchwares We can give them a lower premium on their insurance and I thought like oh This looks like the very start of Not just the Apple watch, but like health reporting devices becoming like Not mandatory, but not entirely a question of do you personally prefer this device or not? So I just thought that was interesting that it's it's actually started to happen We will say but I'll be curious to see if you keep wearing it for your exercises I could see you doing that like I said I know a number of people who that's the only way that they use it And it's for exercise tracking Yeah, I'd like knowing how far I've run and how long I've been running for and it's good to be able to access that from your wrist It is a pain running with a phone in your pocket Yeah, it's a pain taking it out of your pocket and it's also a pain just having something quite that heavy in your pocket So like I've come away on holiday I'm in California at the moment and I brought the Apple watch with me as a second watch So if I'm coming up to MSRI for the day working, I'll put my nice watch on But if I then you know in the morning, I'll get up and put the Apple watch on just for my run. 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To go nab your domain name idea today Thanks to hover for supporting the show and thanks to hover for managing my domains By the way speaking of the fact I'm traveling I'm staying at an Airbnb And I'm I'm having a problem I think I talked about this problem before on the podcast when it happened to my wife But this time it's happened to me and I'm not happy about it And that is I'm staying at a place where I think they're not supposed to have Airbnb people staying And I got this message from them after I'd booked saying If anyone from the other apartments confronts you tell them you're our friend and you're staying at our place as a friend And it's created this real awkwardness about the situation And the other day the other day funnily enough I was out on a run and I got back to the apartment building There's like four apartments in the building and just as I got there one of the other tenants was coming out the front door And I like hid behind a tree I'm not thinking what the hell is going on I'm hiding behind a tree so I don't have to talk to this person And like waited till the coast was clear to go in the house And I'm paying like a ridiculous amount of money to stay in this place I don't understand I'm a paid liar I've already made the decision that if I do get confronted I'm just gonna like I don't know what I'm gonna do but I'm not gonna lie I'm gonna say if you want to know who I am and what's going on you talk to the landlord Brady didn't you learn your lesson when you stayed in that place with the cats Like in the the person who wouldn't leave with all the best I'm only staying in this place because I couldn't stay in the cat place I've become friends with a guy that runs the cat place I actually stay in that one a lot now it's good I don't know Anyway, this is why I just I've never stayed in an Airbnb I have no interest in ever staying in an Airbnb Sometimes it's great sometimes it's a million times better than any other thing Sometimes it's the worst this time it's the worst. I'm sure it is But but this is the whole thing. You know what I don't like for my own personal life The high variance option. That's what you're in right there And like that yes, I perfectly understand that if it goes well An Airbnb is clearly the best place in a city to stay I will not argue with you on that point But it's that variance It's the like hey, can you help me commit real estate fraud If anybody asks what you're up to like that's the part of it where it's like I'm not on this train anymore Or it's the thing about security in an in an Airbnb I'm like does this person have cameras Maybe does a hotel have cameras Maybe but a hotel chain has a lot more to lose If They're discovered to have secret cameras in their hotel rooms Then like some dude who runs an Airbnb does so that's why it's like I just I stay far away the washings also an issue like I'm staying two weeks in this place Mm-hmm, and there's no washing machine right I'm gonna have to like strip the bed all the sheets and the towels and take them to a laundromat Oh god, I wasn't even thinking about that. Yes, okay. Can I go two weeks without washing the sheets? I mean, I mean, you know obviously the back in my bachelor days that was like no problem But these days I've kind of gotten used to the sheets been cleaned, you know every few days and yeah Look Brady. This is what happens when the people in our lives civilize us and you start to get used to Oh clean sheets are nice Yeah, it's like oh bed to smell this nice. Yeah 18 year old me It wouldn't have even crossed his mind about you haven't washed these sheets in two weeks, right? I washed the sheets once a year whether they need them or not. Yeah, exactly All right, but whereas as as actual grown adults you become used to oh Civilized and clean things are so much nicer. Yeah, you know It's like the theory of getting kids used to brushing their teeth whereas like You have to train this animal that to have a clean feeling mouth is a nice thing And it's like it doesn't want it. It's not interested in it But if you can get them over the hump, it's very hard to go back once you learn what a clean mouth should feel like I remember when I was a little boy. I like hating having a shower And if mum told me to go and have a shower I would go to the trouble of creating the illusion that I'd had a shower like I'd run the shower and like Wet feet on the towel and stuff to make it look like I'd had one But not have the shower and now you can't get me out of the shower. I'll have two a day I'll be in the shower for 20 minutes like This is a theory of like of learned behavior with toothpaste of like that's partly why the mint flavor is there It's like a positive reward for the act of having cleaned it like all of all of this kind of stuff So You in an Airbnb. Yeah two weeks is for sure as a grown person too long to not clean the sheets I kind of imagine you ever went through a phase where you were like that though Like I just imagine you always being really Forstidious and fussy and clean and I kind of imagine a time where you would like be In a dirty house with wet towels on the bed and stuff like that Like if I rewind back to living in college I think what perhaps can best be say is like from my perspective I've always been a fussy clean person But this is why I'm talking about like learned behavior you can be learned to be sensitized to Cleaning in a way that you were not previously aware of so I think like that ratchet has been turned up over time of like Be aware of this thing. This should be cleaner than it actually is But when you first mentioned The washing I thought you were going to try to pitch it from the other perspective of Oh, you're in an Airbnb so the great advantages that you can do like your clothes washing at the Airbnb I was gonna be like man just eat the costs of having the hotel to your laundry Like that is what I will take when traveling like over the Airbnb I kind of wish I stayed in the hotel now because all I do is like Sit in bed and edit anyway and then get up and come to work So it's not like I need multiple rooms and things like that and a kitchen and well I guess the kitchen's okay and I'll pay so much for an Airbnb now anyway It's almost like hotel prices anyway. Yeah, well This is the theory is that over time as the number of Airbnb rooms go up and as people find it more acceptable to like as the market develops You should find that the prices equalize to any other sort of temporary stay in a city like if not more because of more amenities So I'm gonna really push for your own good Brady don't stay in Airbnb's Don't participate in real estate fraud. Just stay in a hotel and get nice clean sheets I've got two good ones in Berkeley that I like that I will go to but I couldn't get either of them this time But I'm gonna from now on if I can't get those two I'm gonna get her to okay good. Thank you. I'll feel better about your stays then Hey, just one quick style or something There's a new there's like another trailer for the next movie that came out on Monday night This will exesperate you even more Just because this is like this isn't even the first trailer. They're calling this the final trailer for the final film Okay, and whatever you know I watched this morning. It's okay But they released it on Monday night like to coincide with Monday night football, you know It was gonna that's when it had its big premiere Okay, but for three or four days before that They were running trailers of the trailer On social media like these like 10 second trailers of what was gonna be in the trailer on Monday night Like where is this gonna stop me? Yeah, so you could get I was like on Twitter and like Instagram and it was like coming Monday night The final trailer and then they would show you like glimpses of the glimpses that you were gonna get it was crazy It was like a teaser trailer of a trailer I Think the release of trailers now has become almost as big as the release of films Coming next week The trailer you've all been waiting for I mean In some respects that does make sense because I thoroughly expect to enjoy the trailer of the Star Wars movie more than I'm going to Enjoy the actual Star Wars movie So they may be onto something here that might not be the madness of ideas Just where does the teasing stop What's gonna happen my where does this end it does really feel like This whole thing just spiraling into a self-contained universe of its own divorced from all of reality And it's saying buy tickets now great buy tickets now. That's how the trailer ends book your tickets now I'm telling you Brady I'm genuinely looking forward to seeing this Star Wars movie for the thing that we said when we watched the last one of like Then we'll be free right this is this is the final one on the record and there's a part of me which has like this I've been aware of it of like this itchy feeling of like come on. Let's get this over with right like I like Once it's done Then I never have to care ever again and like I'm ready like I'm so ready to never care again I've been aware of this like EACH INUS or like I've caught myself trying to figure out like oh which which of the movie theaters am I going to try to see it in and like when is it gonna happen and We should go and see it together I've never seen a Star Wars film with you. Okay. We should look into the logistics of check how diaries I'll come over to London and watch it with you. Okay. Yes. Let's try to figure that out because then we can just walk out together Defiantly like almost angrily. That's it Like we submitted some evil mountain. That is as close as we're going to come to somebody mountain Everest together Yes, we can we can walk out of Star Wars Record an episode and that is it that is a glorious way to bring an end to all of this Like two parents that are finally married off their final All my commitments are over all the finances all the money all the stress all the worry is Yes, it's all done. 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They're just a fantastic suitcase So once again go to away travel.com slash hello internet 20 and use promo code hello internet 20 during checkout Thanks to away for supporting the show Okay, so Brady you For today Asked me to watch a movie I set you homework. Yeah, you did set me homework, which is totally fair because I set you homework last time Yes, and the movie you set was called the game changers Yes, which is a documentary on Athletics and plant-based diets might be the way to put it or like plant-based diet and primarily through the lens of athletics Yeah, it's an it's advocating people going onto a plant-based diet which I've learned is like The better way to say vegan because vegan has a whole lot of other connotations with other people don't like So they say now they call it a plant-based diet. Yeah, that was literally my my number one note is vegan question mark Yeah, and I was waiting to see Does anybody actually use the word vegan because they were very careful about constantly using the phrase Plant-based diet and I tune into it straight away Like how many times are they going to say vegan in this movie and the answer is almost never and it's always looked like a guest who wasn't prepped Well enough to not say vegan But a lot of it. Yeah, most of it is through like interviews and examples with high performance athletics Which I think there is their way of saying you know all those cliches about veganism. Sorry plant-based dietism knocking your you know certain abilities For six is not true. You can still be awesome. You can still be a muscle man or a you can still be a muscle man Sprinter or you can still Be a world champion you can still be a fighter on these diets But then there's also a lot of science in the film and stuff like that and it's kind of you know if you're being nasty Which I don't want to be nasty you'd call it bit of like propaganda piece for veganism Mm-hmm, but Good film well done. I thought it was pretty interesting Like I thought found a very thought provoking and affecting so I was wondering what and I know you're really into things like I thought it pressed lots of your buttons for better or worse I thought this film might press a lot of your buttons and areas of interest In good ways and bad ways. So I was super curious to hear what you thought about it Well, I was also just wondering like Did you recommend this because I guess you were announcing that you're going vegan at this point in the show like I thought I was just very sort of meta aware of like oh this is an interesting choice for Brady to recommend and I tend to think of you as having a bit of a like a hot dog based diet Very I'm a proper carnivore So what happened was this is what happened I'd heard the film being talked about I'd heard a little bit of buzz about it on radio like I listened to a lot of sports radio And they'd been a bit of like you know interviews and publicity for it on sports radio and I'd heard people talking about it and I did sound Interesting to me. I probably wouldn't have sorted out but it sounded interesting And it was in my consciousness and then we were sitting in the lounge And I was sitting there with my wife who's really into health and fitness and diet and is vegetarian And she's like obsessed with all that stuff and we were just looking for something to watch And then I saw this film and I was like well, I've heard of it and I'm interested and I think sure really like her Let's give it a try And then got really into it and found it really interesting and found a quite thought provoking And to be honest, I watched it Two weeks ago and I haven't eaten meat since I haven't eaten meat for two weeks and I think that is like a record since I was born it feels like I was with that without eating meat I haven't gone vegan. I haven't even you know decided to go vegetarian I've just like put a toe in the water to see how I would like it And yeah, that's what happened So you know you talked to me tomorrow. I might have a steak but at the moment I'm pushing on with Trying to not eat meat and a lot of it is because of different things I saw in that film It like it did affect me. You know, I don't know. I don't know if we'll stick I've been affected by things before and then you know it wears away Yeah, yeah, this one affected me enough to stop me eating meat for a couple of weeks now So that is intentional. It's not just like a You're intentionally trying to keep up the streak at this point. Is that what you're doing? Yeah, I'm making I'm making decisions to do it Yeah, I don't know if it will be good for me or not, but I have noticed already not eating meat It cuts off my supply To a lot of the other things that are unhealthy like because I can't go to McDonald's now because what are you gonna eat in McDonald's if you don't eat meat You're not going to get fries. I so suddenly You know McDonald's and burger king and KFC and like all these things that I that deliver other bad things to me like You know french fries and chips and all that stuff and lots of bad stuff is kind of Being cut off because of the the meat decision. So hmm. I don't know whether not eating meat will be super good for me I don't know. I don't know. It's early days. It's early days Um, I'm curious though. It's so in the past two weeks If you're not going to all the like the fast food stuff that you would do and like and you're also traveling as well Which is a bit of a different situation, but yes What have you replaced those foods with in your diet? I haven't gone like super healthy, which is what I need to do I'm not like having a salad and vegetables. I will still have a pizza But I'll have a vegetarian pizza You know, or I'll have a burrito But instead of like filling it up with chicken and beef. I'll have you know, it'll be beans and stuff like that So it's more along those kind of lines. I mean a bit more fruit and stuff But I haven't sought really sorted my diet out And it is super hard when you're traveling But I don't know I haven't things haven't settled. I don't know how things are gonna end anyway Enough about me and that we can come back to if you want I want to know what you thought of the film. I want to hear like what you thought about it Well, I mean there's a couple of things here one I was just I was just curious about what you're eating because I know when I moved to London Which was like a real oh, I'm an actual adult now phase of my life And also a like oh, you have no money at all I was for a while an accidental vegetarian I wasn't intentionally trying to not eat meat But I just ended up consuming entirely like pasta and ramen noodles and like all of this kind of like Really super cheap carbohydrates ended up becoming like a hundred percent of my diet And that went on for a long time and I sort of didn't realize for a while and I would say that was not remotely and like a healthy time in my life And so I was just kind of curious because I actually think that While there are many good reasons to not eat meat There's also a question of like what are you substituting it for? Yes, you have my why this is all I'm hearing at the moment Like yeah, I don't mean to be that way, but it's just like yeah That was I mean this is years and years before Hello Internet But it was the very first time I ever became sensitized to any sort of health stuff in my life was when a friend brought this up of like You know you can't eat cereal for breakfast and then a bowl of Parmesan pasta for lunch and dinner And then do that every day Yeah, and I was like oh yeah, that is what I've been doing for the last two years Yeah, don't worry. I'm getting lectured on that plenty and rightly so That's why I say I haven't settled on what how things are gonna end yet Because I know that if I just eat Goals are cereal and pizzas then That would be even worse than if I was eating meat so yeah I'm not trying to chastise you. I just think it's I think it's like an interesting. It's an interesting Your thing and it was kind of surprising for me at one point to realize like oh I haven't Eaton meat in forever and that's why I think of that is like my accidental vegetarian phase the film Tell me what you thought of the film. I wanted to be a little gentle because I'm very much Encouraging of a Brady healthy lifestyle We're all constantly striving to be better with health in our lives But I found the documentary I knew nothing about it like I just watched it. I just read like the top little line I found it almost intolerable to get through It was just yeah hitting every one of my red flags for Strange ways of phrasing things or like I feel you know given the work that we do I feel very sensitized to how is someone explaining something to you and like noticing moments when they shift from one thing to another And I feel like this was a documentary that was propaganda is a little strong but like boys it pushing a point And it was sort of jumping all over the place and filled from my perspective with like all the sorts of stuff that I hate tremendous amounts of anecdotes of like interviews with dudes who switched to a plant-based diet and they feel better I was like okay, that's great for you Exceptional individuals And so it's in focus almost entirely on these guys in extreme sports And it's like that's great, but it's always been my philosophy that like normal people making normal decisions shouldn't look at exceptional individuals and what they're doing As representative of the general population, you know, it's it's it's like my thing about like CEOs of enormous companies are not people to look for to expect them to be normal representative people They just aren't so like it's hitting these kinds of things are like okay. We're talking to these sports guys and I found it doing this thing which is like debunking ideas that I never felt like whoever thought this So there's this thing about like meat gives you energy and they spend a lot of time on debunking this idea that meat is this thing that gives you energy and I was like Definitely a myth. That's definitely a myth that I'm familiar with having a big stake before you know This to do that. Okay, okay, so maybe that's a thing that exists in the world But I've found it bizarre. I was like I've read a bunch of books on I don't remember ever coming across this There's like Meat is necessary to build muscles is a total myth that's in people's minds and like they spend time on that But I found the energy one just like oh no there is a little strange that vegans in particular are like kind of We can don't have much stamina and you know can't climb to the top of the mountain because they run out of like Petrol like that is like a thing That's totally hysteria type yeah, and the the thing that the documentary is trying to show is is exactly what you say like look at these athletes Who are vegans and They're way fitter than you're ever gonna be right like it's totally true but So like I look at veganism and If I'm being generous, I would say that It strikes me as a hard mode diet if you're going to do this you better know what you're doing and it's gonna be way hard You know little things that annoy me is later in the documentary It's like yes, of course all of these sports guys have like professional cooks and like there's a team It's managing what their macro nutrients are and they have an enormous supply chain to support them in In trying to do this thing and there's like millions of dollars on the line of what their macro nutrients I was like this is not a normal Person who's trying to have a have a diet And it is also partly why I think of like my accidental vegetarian phase which is Yeah, it's easy to not eat meat is actually not that hard if you want to have like a totally terrible diet but I think to Have a totally meat-free diet and be healthy Is a hard diet like of all the possible things to do It's a more Difficult one and they sort of sweep under the rug like all the logistical support that these guys are gonna have to pull this off Can I can I call you up on one thing one point you just get right ahead so You sort of capture criticism of the film that you feel like they are kind of Cheating a bit by using all these exceptional athletes and they're using anecdotes and they jump all over the place And you know, they're making one point suddenly they go somewhere else and that kind of is true but I think You're kind of maybe hinting or suggesting it they do this to Avoid problems and avoid criticisms and maybe that's true Maybe that's not but I think the main reason the film is the way it is and a lot of my complaints about the film that a kind of similar Or having some snazzy graphic on the screen that you kind of what does that actually mean? What are you saying? It's like right I think a lot of that stuff that's happening although they do put citations in the little footnotes in the corner of the screen So kudos for that But I think a lot of those things that you're complaining about the overuse of celebrities exceptional cases and anecdotes Jumping around the place without going into enough detail isn't because they're cheating or trying to obscure facts Or avoid holes in their argument I think it's because they're just trying to hold people's attention in a world of people that don't have the attention span Or interest in detail that you have And if you made that film without using celebrities in extreme cases and the world's strongest man pulling a truck Or if you spent too long on one point and 20 minutes going into did sort of detail that CGP gray wants from a film Or if you like did some of these other things that you would have liked them to have done You would make a really boring film that no one would watch And I think the reason that there's so much frothiness and jumping around and celebrity and superficiality in the film Is just so that it's got huge appeal And I think they're really good to spend too long on one boring point I'm sure Some of these plant-based experts would love to have spent 40 minutes more talking about the point they were making And showing you more supporting information and going into all the details and the tangents and the finer points But you just can't do that in a film and therefore suggesting that the film is like cheating to to hide the facts Is maybe true, but I think it's more the other case. I think it's more just they're trying to make something that Everyone likes so I actually don't think they're trying to hide the fact I mean there is one thing that they do which annoys me but every healthy in the world does it but it's It's a certain kind of of like Impression giving that strikes me as a little bit Disannust is too strong, but it's a it's a thing that I feel very sensitized to So like as a what I think is a great example is right out of the gate The director guy who like switched to a vegan diet and it's making the documentary like the host Yes, yes, I like the host He talks about going through all this peer-reviewed research and and you know at this point It's like I don't disbelieve him right. I'm not calling his credibility into account here But then the thing that he immediately starts talking about is how The Roman gladiators were the first mixed martial artists and That the evidence shows that they had an entirely plant-based diet and in an align that makes me laugh hilariously And got us off to a really bad start. He says they had the best medical care that the Roman Empire could provide right? Which is like oh, yeah, like I'm sure those leeches were great But the reason I don't like an example like that is it It's like I know why you've chosen this example It gets people's attention But is the reason that the gladiators didn't eat a lot of meat Because it was healthy and made them better fighters Or is it because they were slaves or is it because there just wasn't a lot of meat to go around in the Roman Empire Like there's little tests that you're doing on gladiator bones to show that they didn't eat a lot of meat You know do that on Caesar and I like I don't expect you're gonna get a wildly different Result from that. That's a fair point But I also think the and they come back to what later in the film that I think another reason they were doing that Yeah, they use the gladiators because our host is a mixed martial artist and there's like a there's a nice symmetry there And there is the whole point you know they would want these guys to be fit But you're right they were slaves But I think that the deeper point that they're going to and they come to it more later on when they move into more just into like you know prehistoric people Is that there's a myth that humans used to eat more meat They used to be these you know cavemen that were killing animals and eating them and humans are built for meat And I think they were trying to get around that myth that humans are built for meat and in fact In many ways it seems humans are built for plants. That's what they were trying to say So the reason they want to go back in history a bit is to also deal with that way that we're born meat eaters Yeah, I can get that but then later in the documentary It's the same sort of Selectiveness so there's there's an expert who comes on and says oh We have no genetic or physiological adaptations for eating meat Which to me is like a like a thing that it's like yes, you may be technically true about that It's like a crazy misrepresentation of Humans are omnivores like that's a that's a fact about Humans that we can eat meat and we can also eat plants. It's the same thing where they're like Here's the jaw of a lion and here's the intestines of a lion and here's the jaw of a human and the intestines of a human and so we're not designed to eat meat and it's like Yeah, we're not designed to eat meat only But like I don't know who in the like remotely mainstream of the dietary world is trying to promote the idea that humans are like lions Every single time they talked about anything. I felt that what they were avoiding And this would be my fundamental problem What they were avoiding was really this fact so that they kept saying Switching to a plant-based diet and like all of the studies were like here's what happens when you switch to a plant-based diet Like good things go up and bad things go down and even some of the like the people they're talking to they're like oh, man I felt great when I switched to a plant-based diet But the question it was always like switching from what and like I imagine almost all of those studies were studies of like normal dude switching to a plant-based diet under conditions where they're basically talking about like a healthy vegan diet and it's like Yeah, of course if you take like a normal person who's just eating whatever And have them eat something that remotely looks like a healthy vegetarian diet Of course their health markers are going up But they sort of are always trying to present it as though like It's against Meet like meat is really terrible and the only thing that you should do is Eat plants all the time and I just felt like this is where I like the switch always seem to be happening of like All of the data they're talking about is switching to a plant-based diet and then it's always put like Against-a-piece of information about eating meat is bad for you But it just it never felt like you're like you're not really connecting those two things and My view was basically like There are a million things that you can do with a normal person's diet To make them eat much healthier and That's where it felt like it was a kind of weird propaganda of This isn't just about Eat more vegetables and it will be healthy for you and especially with the with the very conscious avoidance of the word vegan It just had this real feel of like Am I watching some kind of vegan propaganda film here? so Yeah, like when I think about Return on investment for health, right? Like you're an unhealthy person And you want to try to make your life more healthy What should you do the number one return on investment? Thing that you're probably ever going to be able to do is sort out your sleep schedule like before we even get to diet or exercise Like sleep properly has got to be the biggest bang for your buck I'd probably put like any kind of exercise is the next thing that you should do before diet Like this is just me thinking personally about like if I was trying to advise someone Hmm, and then after that I think by far and away the biggest bang for your buck And this is this is what I was kind of annoyed about is like You know because I've spent a lot of time looking at health stuff and I have a couple friends who are like Health people like you know doing the same kind of thing like reviewing the literature And probably the biggest single thing that comes back is like the huge just return on investment is Reduce the amount of sugar in the food that you eat no matter what it is you're eating like reduce the amount of sugar Is the biggest return on investment per unit effort that you can possibly spend And so yeah, like I think if you're switching to a vegetarian or a vegan diet And you're not just eating pasta like I did Yeah, you're like way reducing the amount of sugar that you're eating and If you're doing something that's like on the opposite end you're doing something more on the keto end of the diet It's like yeah, that'll also dramatically reduce the amount of sugar that you're eating And so I just felt like the documentary was a little bit too much Plants are the only answer for my liking in a way that felt like it was avoiding some of the other Stuff about like hell. It was a film about plant-based diets. I mean that's like saying they didn't have you know I would like to have seen more talk about iPhones in there because I really like iPhones You know it wasn't a film about iPhones. It was a film about plant-based diets. I totally get that but it is this like It's where the cut always happens the moment they stop talking or it's it's bringing on the person who's like L.o.l humans aren't lions and it's like yeah, no I don't know who who one earth could possibly think that speaking of African animals Let me ask you about one part. What did you think about the part where they interviewed the Like the game-wording guy who protects animals from poachers who also happened still have gone vegan now And he talks about the fact he used to eat meat and he had this job protecting animals So he would go every day and protect you know elephants and rhinos or whatever and then he'd come home and tuck into a cow And he said you know I just spent years and years justifying that and in the end what I'm a hypocrite. It's hypocrisy Because that kind of rung a bell with me because I buddy. I love animals and I'm always talking about how much I love dogs and cats and And there was this new story the other day where we're a cow that was off for slaughter escaped in some English village and They were chasing it and I thought oh they should let that cow go free now because it's you know Made it a dash for freedom Then they came and took it away and killed it anyway, and I was like outraged by that And like I do love cows. I like cows if I go to a field and see some cows. I like them like I I feel a real Link to animals a real love for animals all animals except like maybe Myse I don't like me. That's very much But jellyfish. Yeah, jellyfish. I don't know the ethical side of it did occur to me that I claimed to be this great lover of animals And yet and then at night I literally eat them So how convincing do I find this documentary about oh, I should I should move away from keto Which is what I personally find effective for trying to keep my weight down and Again, like going back to what should you do for health? Seems like whatever works for you that keeps your weight down is again like a great return on investment and the specifics of What's the reduction in heart attack rates like two orders of magnitude less than health problems from just being overweight? So like do I find this documentary convincing about I should try it like a vegetarian diet versus a keto diet for reducing and maintaining weight I find it totally unconvincing in every possible way and it feels like a weird propaganda film and it doesn't work for me at all But by far and away the argument against eating meat that is effective is the is the moral argument we've discussed on the show I think that by far and away The morally worst thing that I do in daily life is eating meat and I think it's the kind of thing that in that future generations Will look back upon Totally in the same way that we look back upon slavery that is just like how on earth did this horror go on? So yeah like I'm aware of that like I'm always aware of that But this is also where I just it just comes down to The personal difficulty of like changing my eating habits as an adult Has been by far and away the most difficult personal behavioral change I have ever attempted It's like I have made very slow and erratic progress Over my life in doing that and it's like man The only thing that really does help is going more on the like the keto end of the spectrum which means Eating more meat than my accidental vegetarianism would lean me towards But I like I will totally bite that bullet of like this is a morally bad thing to do so I would disagree with him a little bit about the hypocrisy because I do think there's a bit of a like It is correct that like The value of an African rhino's life I think we can say is worth more than the value of a cows simply because of like the the frequency of them in the population Except that cow that escaped into the village again I agree with you there if like if you are a monkey and you escape from a zoo Congratulations, you have earned your freedom suddenly it was a charismatic mega cow Yeah, we can all get on board with that But that argument is not really morally convincing to the next cow online at the slaughterhouse of like you know That cow's suffering Isn't any less real or any less intense because I can say We should allocate more resources to try and preserve rhinos Because like we want to prevent them from going extinct So yeah, like I like I really feel for that guy and You know, I can only assume that Like those kinds of jobs are positions of working with animals It's going to make it like a much more visceral thing every day that you're dealing with And is going to be able to have a stronger impact on behavioral change than other things I presume that you feel the same way like how much of your Switching to a vegan diet is about I haven't switched to a vegan diet. Ah, okay. I'm only slightly switching to a vegetarian diet Ah, I'm still eating cheese Oh god, I'm eating loads of cheese milk that that's the other thing that goes up is like dramatic dairy consumption Look, I'm gonna look. I'm gonna be honest I did have one piece of pizza yesterday that had a small bit of ham on it. Oh Okay, there's no point lying. Look, thanks for festing up Brady I've just confessed to being a moral monster And so you can you can confess to eating a little bit of ham. I don't know where things are gonna settle But I'm pretty sure it's not gonna settle on completely plant-based slash vegan So you think that meat consumption is in your future as well, but this is like a this is like a trial period But I find it hard to see milk and cheese going anytime soon because like vegetarian pizzas are nice I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know But I just think maybe cutting meat is like an avenue to other forms of making my life more healthy So we'll see who knows maybe just eat meat on weekends or something. I don't know I can't remember where I first came across this idea But like as a recommendation for people trying to fight the moral fight I think the much more convincing argument is as I've seen people try to do something like No meat Fridays like just get people started on the idea of don't eat meat on a particular day and My real thing is I would I want synthetic meat to exist yesterday like a like lab-grown meat Not impossible burger stuff, but like actual like muscle tissue grown in a vat. That's my dream But we're not there yet and until we can get there If you're going to try to play the vastly harder game of changing people's minds I think the more effective way is to not do it with a documentary like this where you're like Try to get people to go 100% vegetarian immediately But start with the thin end of the wedge of like there's a moral argument against eating animals And then instead of condemning people for being moral monsters for eating meat at all Just try to get that wedge in and be like Decrease your meat consumption right try to have like one day a week Where you're eating less meat or you're eating no meat And even even if just that were to be successful like the impact on the factory farming industry would be enormous If you could actually convince people to give up meat one day a week Right and then like when you win that fight you have the possibility of expanding the boundaries Slowly because I think like the rhino guy it would kind of get into your head of Oh, I'm doing the right thing one day a week. Why don't I do the right thing seven days a week? Yeah, right or three days a week or seven days a week that kind of thing so Nice. I don't I'm gonna give it a thumbs down as a piece of propaganda as well So I have to say I did not enjoy this documentary. Yeah, I was about to totally abandon ship Until the part where they got three poor suckers into Measure their private parts. That was interesting. Wasn't it you can let that was like they're thinking If this film isn't working on people on all these different like bases. Maybe maybe we can use sex Yeah, I was literally two seconds away from closing Netflix and being like I can't deal with another minute of this thing When they're like hey guys, uh, why don't you come into this doctor's office and uh, we're going to Measure you in very intimate ways in intimate moments And I like I was looking at those three poor bastards and like they had no idea what they were signing up They thought they were just gonna be part of this documentary But it's like yeah, they're trying to hit it on every level Well Good on you for watching I think it's important to watch bad things as well, you know things you don't like just to know what's going on What's happening in the dark guys? Lots of famous people were involved in making this film and so it's been getting a lot of attention Yeah, it's always good to hear what people think yeah, and I and I completely agree like you can't wall yourself off from the whole the whole rest of the world But yeah, I can say it was not uh It did not it did not have a big effect on me But I can genuinely say that I hope it does have a lasting effect on you like if If this is a thing that you find Works for you for increasing your health in the long run like who wouldn't want that to happen It's all part of the great milieu of Stuff you take in that affect that you know makes you make life decisions and yeah, this one had slightly above average impact so we'll see where it lands. I have a A queue of world-class mathematicians waiting for me to make films now here MSRI so we better record our goodbye internet Oh, so I can go and do my work. Okay. All right. Well, yes, we have to go on main hello internet and then well It'll be goodbye internet for some of you

References[edit | edit source]

↑ "H.I. #130: Remember Harder". Hello Internet. Retrieved 29 October 2019.
↑ "Hello Internet – #130: Remember Harder – Archived via the Wayback Machine on November 4, 2019, 08:26:55 (UTC)". Overcast. Hello Internet. Archived from the original on 4 November 2019. Retrieved 4 November 2019.
↑ ""H.I. #130: Remember Harder" – Archived via Archive.today on November 10, 2019 at 23:48:16 (UTC)". YouTube. Hello Internet. Archived from the original on 10 November 2019. Retrieved 11 November 2019.

[HI_page-1] "H.I. #130: Remember Harder". Hello Internet. Retrieved 29 October 2019.

[2] "Hello Internet – #130: Remember Harder – Archived via the Wayback Machine on November 4, 2019, 08:26:55 (UTC)". Overcast. Hello Internet. Archived from the original on 4 November 2019. Retrieved 4 November 2019.

[3] ""H.I. #130: Remember Harder" – Archived via Archive.today on November 10, 2019 at 23:48:16 (UTC)". YouTube. Hello Internet. Archived from the original on 10 November 2019. Retrieved 11 November 2019.

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