H.I. No. 5: Freebooting

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Hello Internet episode
Episode 5 on the podcast YouTube channel
Episode no.5
Presented by
Original release dateFebruary 26, 2014 (2014-02-26)
Running time1:25:03
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"H.I. #5: Freebooting" is the fifth episode of Hello Internet, released on February 26, 2014.[1]

Official Description[edit | edit source]

Grey and Brady talk about alternative words for infringement, the disgustingness of stuff and the impossibility of consistent opinions on how to treat advertising.

Show Notes[edit | edit source]


Other[edit | edit source]

Fan Art

Brady 0:00 We're going to just keep pushing the envelope thinking this is easy. We can do this until one day, we're going to just, it's going to explode in our faces.

Grey 0:06 That might that might be the case and there might be very soon. But I realized just today that this is episode number five, which means that we are halfway towards our experimental limit of 10 episodes. So we're 50% of the way through this at this stage, we're getting a lot of

Brady 0:27 comments and questions about what happens beyond 10. How you can't have missed these comments.

Unknown Speaker 0:32 Yes, I have definitely seen them. I'm still not 100% sure that we will make it to 10

Brady 0:40 you're worried I'm gonna go overseas again and eat some poor food and keel over?

Grey 0:44 Yes, that's partly true. I am slightly worried that you will die from some travel adventure. And I'm also mainly worried that we will just run out of things to talk about, you know, maybe like we'll make it to eight episodes and then we'll think Whoo, what let's What else to talk about? So that's, that's part of the reason why we have this 10 episode number is to see if we can even make it that far like that awkward silence and a date or something when you get to

Brady 1:10 that point where you realize I have nothing left to say, yes, follow up from last time or follow up from what's come before, anything on anything you want to talk about.

Grey 1:20 Okay, so we got a whole bunch of comments and we solicited comments last in last episode on a few things. But before I forget, I wanted to mention that I was very happy to see that a couple of people found out the kind of little secret of our intro. It's not a song but our intro sound that plays right at the beginning. I'm not going to say what it is. But I will just say that there is there is something interesting to be found out about that intro sound if you are paying attention, and I have seen some commenters figure it out and well done to those commenters. I'm very pleased. I wasn't sure if anyone would ever notice. But a couple people did. So that made me very happy.

Brady 1:59 That was an hour Production wasn't it Elena made that one?

Grey 2:02 Yes, Alan made that one. Ellen Stewart who has the YouTube channel and he does a bunch of the music for your videos in particular doesn't

Brady 2:10 does the guy the guy's a genius and your allen key 86 is his channel but he he's really good at making making that music like really good on the piano especially I really like his piano stuff. So

Grey 2:22 because he did that, the Yule Log one for you right? The chemistry yule log? He did he did it was that was

Brady 2:30 like the thing that the thing I love about working without him is like in this kind of in this YouTube world, you know, there's only so many things we can do. We often ask for help. Don't wait for animators and musicians and people. And it's so brilliant that so brilliant though how much they help us in these these volunteers. But the thing is because they're volunteers and everyone in the world is busy, they do things on their own time scale. Alan cycle quick. Here's the thing that amazes me there been times where I've been like filming in a cemetery and I've sent him like an email or a text with the cemetery guy, or I could really use this piece of music that kind of creates the atmosphere of me walking around a cemetery. And before I get back to like my house on my hotel, he's like, played it and recorded that to me, and it's brilliant. He's uh, he's great that that and the new log was brilliant as well as he said he, I made this hour long film, which I won't recommend people watch because it's an hour long. But um, but it needed music. And he he watched like a rough cut of the video and just played the music live to it. Like he just watched it and reacted to what he was seeing on the screen and scored this hour long video. Just like off the cuff. And if you do watch it, that is the that is the best reason to watch it just to just to see, just to watch it. This guy is playing like, this guy's just watching this for the first time and making the music it's astounding to me.

Grey 3:59 You're totally under selling Your own video, I'm going to put it in the show notes and recommend that people watch it. Because it is it is. It is the most different kind of you will log you will ever see. And it is interesting to see for that reason. But yeah, the his music that goes along with it is quite good. So he's great. He's thanks, thanks to Alan for putting together our intro sound, which I quite like. And I went through very large number of different sounds and eventually selected that one and i think i think it's working pretty well as the opening. So

Brady 4:28 he created loads on his own and I didn't he said, Yeah, whole bunch. Yeah,

Grey 4:31 yeah, you're very fastly. I have very fuzzy. And it turns out that finding good sounds is surprisingly, surprisingly hard to do. So anyway, I was very happy to see that some people found a little secret in that intro sound that we have. So I just wanted to mention that and it is there for other people to try and figure out. Excellent. Second thing I have on my list here is that we did do or I did a call for review us from different countries around the world if we can get them in the iTunes Store. And so I'm very pleased to see that we got four new countries that have left reviews in the iTunes stores. And that's Guatemala, Israel, Japan and Norway. So thanks to the listeners in those places, who reviews Have you been to any of those places that I have been? I have been to 50% of those places. Where have you been? I have been to Japan, and I have been to Norway. And I have to say that I liked I liked both of those trips for very different reasons. Japan is I really, I went to Tokyo, and that just incredibly, unbelievably dense city. And then Norway, basically the opposite, right? It's just nature in every direction and absolutely astounding nature, in every direction. So I've been to two of those places. Have you any Any of those places

Brady 6:01 I have been to two as well. I have been also been to Japan. I've been to Japan a few times actually. It's a it's a bit of a favorite. And I have been to Israel so and Israel's Gosh, that's an amazing place. If you like your history, you gotta get that's a good place.

Grey 6:18 I was gonna say right because you've been there for Bible decks that the channels

Brady 6:23 Yes, my, you just basically I realized that you bring up all my channels, like pretending to be nice, but really you're just mocking me for having so many channels. I am not mocking I'm envious. Okay, I did go. I did feel with Israel projects. And it was it's an amazing place. What was

Grey 6:40 what was okay, so you told me once about the the little ladder in it was that in Israel?

Brady 6:49 Oh, yes, that is that's in Jerusalem. That's the I think it's called the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Something that I think it's called. It's like I had never actually heard of it. And it's like the most Important church and Christianity, and it was in Jerusalem. And because it's this really important place where it's the church is supposedly built over the site of the crucifixion and the burial of crossbody, I'm not going to go into that. But anyway, this is supposedly where the churches is built. So it's really important to all these different denominations of Christianity. So they all have different parts of it, like the Greek Orthodox Christians might have that alcove over there. And that little, that little section of the church there belongs to these people. And it's a real little, sometimes it can be a little tough, or it seems. And very famously, there's this ladder and if you look it up on Wikipedia, and everywhere, you can read all about it. It's like 20 famous, there was this ladder, just a small that workmen's ladder, put outside sort of on a roof near a window. I don't know what for maybe someone was doing some painting or something. And then there was this big dispute about I don't know whether it should be there or whose it was, I can't remember the details. But it got to the point where no one could move or touch the ladder. And it's, it's been there ever since. So you go there, it looks like there's this, some workmen has left his ladder there. But it's been there for 10s and 10s of years. And it's got these interesting stories behind it and someone wants moved it and there was all this controversy. And but it's, I mean, it's a great example of, you know, tensions you can get within religion, I guess. But I don't think we should turn this into a religious podcast, because I'm definitely not going to the comments there.

Unknown Speaker 8:34 Yeah. No, the comments, comments will be that delicate might be the best way to put it. But yeah, remember that remember, that was interesting, just that that no one had touched it. And that was, I saw that on one of your Bible text videos. I think

Brady 8:47 the the comments could not be more delicate than the storm that we have created with this talk about infringement.

Grey 8:55 Yes, yes, I was I was going to, I was going to move to that next which is You, you appreciate my phrasing of it. But you wanted a different word than infringing to describe when when something like a newspaper, re hosts one of our videos and puts their own ads on it, and earns money off of it that you you didn't like the word infringing to describe this activity because you thought that it was like a wimpy word. And you wanted something meaner?

Brady 9:28 Is that is that fair will mean or is not the word I would use? Let's make one thing clear from the start. This all started because of you. Yes. And you calling it stealing? That is exactly right. And I think that was a Freudian slip, whatever. And I think I think you have secretly, your subconscious has nailed your true colors to the mast. And now your intellect is taking over and you're being all technical and legal.

Grey 9:53 Well, I adequately explained this. This is this is the danger of the podcast is casually saying things that upon reflection you think that is not that is not where I what I what my actual position is and the infringing stealing thing I feel very strongly about it. So, yes, you are correct, that I was inaccurate in my first descriptions. But I think that is it as a side issue, you are looking for a different word.

Brady 10:21 Let me let me say a few other things. Yeah. I intellectually understand between going up and punching some grandmother in the face and taking a handbag and stealing one of CT progress videos and putting on my the guy caught stealing, taking one of CTP guys videos and putting up on my own website. I understand the difference.

Unknown Speaker 10:47 And

Brady 10:49 there can be a difference of severity, the difference of severity can actually go the other way. I mean, I think what a big tabloid newspaper does to us is probably worse than What some, you know, starving child might do if they steal a loaf of bread? And yet one of them is labeled a thief. And the other one has merely infringed on copyright. But I think, and I don't really care about this that much and I can't believe again, but you did tell me is it we can talk about this again, grand you said?

Unknown Speaker 11:21 That's okay. podcasts, you know, that's what podcasts are about.

Grey 11:24 Yeah, it's it's, it's a it's an evolving conversation. So that's why we will we will keep on this.

Brady 11:30 So, so here we go again. I have been reading people's comments. I've enjoyed them very much. I've enjoyed some of their suggestions. I've understood their arguments. I think I've understood their arguments. But when you do look at you know dictionary definitions of infringing you see words like encroaching and undermining and contravening. And I think these are. These are soft words. These are words that are cushioning cushioning the blow who are obscuring severity. I still think that but maybe it's just me and I know what the semantics anyway. And maybe I've just always misunderstood the word infringing. But I just think it's a soft word and it makes something bad. Sound not as bad. But anyway, I'm so sorry, I people have been coming up with all these words and ideas. You know, I think they're just humoring me. I think they all think I'm an idiot and they just humoring me by coming up with these words. It's

Grey 12:27 no, it's obvious everyone agrees with you know, I think people reading through the comments. I think the general consensus was that I am. I think I would, I would say it's fair that most people agree that there should be a distinction. But there were a fair number of people who did like this idea of trying to come up with some different word that infringing is not the best word for this situation. All right. I've got a word. Oh, yeah, you have

Brady 12:54 a word. I'm going to throw it into the mix, okay. And it's not perfect, but I want to be Part of the debate. How about this one? freebooting

Unknown Speaker 13:05 freebooting freebooting

Brady 13:07 i because basically, it was inspired by a few people were saying different things, and you told me about piracy. And so when I went and looked at words associated with piracy, and I came along, I came across this word freebooting, which has to do with piracy and looting and taking things. And I like that it's got the word free in it because they're taking things and you know, taking things without paying and booting in it, because it's got that makes it sound a bit computery but I also liked it. It's got this history of piracy and accountable activity. So I'm gonna put freebooting out there.

Grey 13:41 I gotta say, I assumed that this was a word that you were just made up. Not looking at. Yeah, this is what I'm doing right now. So freebooting Look at that. Okay, so the which scenario, see what it has to say about that. So freebooter is a type of pirate hmm and freebooting engaged in piracy or plunder

Brady 14:02 now those freebooters taken our videos.

sick of it. You know, this freebooting It's a serious issue. We need to do something

Grey 14:18 freebooters You sound so sincere. I don't know.

Brady 14:24 I feel ridiculous that we're still talking about this. But anyway,

Grey 14:27 oh, no, no, it's not ridiculous podcasts, podcasts can go on forever about these kinds of things. Um, it's funny because the reason you like it is I think the reason I don't like it, which is the free part in the beginning, is that that can that can be a can be both ways. That's a fair criticism. But but that is interesting that you found a word that is related related to piracy, which is sort of related to infringement. You know, obviously, there was not the same thing people, but it's in the same in the same world of

Brady 14:58 x. I let the booty Is it the booting? Is it strong point? The free is the weakness the free doesn't make it does again, soften the blow of it. So I'm like freestyle that makes it sound a bit fun and nice, you know?

Grey 15:14 So freebooting it's interesting thing about I was I was just looking at through some of the alternatives, and they all have problems. I didn't see anyone to come up with that was the one. Yeah, there were there were a few that I thought might might not be bad. But freebooting is a genuinely new one that is coming or not new. But it's it's old enough that it is new. And so it is coming without any kind of baggage.

Unknown Speaker 15:39 So that's interesting. Interesting. All right.

Brady 15:42 Well, thanks for humoring me. And now we'll be sorry. No, no, you're not talking about this in the next podcast?

Grey 15:47 You don't understand right? Because in the comments section for this podcast, we will have to see what people think about the freebooting term. And maybe they'll be more to discuss in the future episode one never knows

Brady 15:58 is there any chance you're going to freebooting like in the title of the podcast?

Grey 16:03 I don't know, I don't know enough to have to think of a think of a title. Come up with titles is the tricky part, but freebooting maybe I don't know, we'll see it might make it, it might make it people people listening now will already know, because we don't know we're recording this live from our perspective. But you dear listener, or in the future from us, and already know probably what the title is even as you're listening right now, which is one of the strange things about podcasting. So, we will see if I have used the word freebooting in the title or not. Excellent. Anyway, any will follow up? I have nothing on my list other than other than those few items.

Brady 16:40 Speaking of free, by the way,

Grey 16:41 sorry, actually, Yeah, I do. You actually do enter the time of the freebooting thing for Scott.

Brady 16:47 Speaking of rebooting, by the way, I noticed someone free booted one of our podcasts and put it on YouTube. See if I keep using it in this context, eventually it's going to be adopted.

Grey 17:00 Right, somebody for rebooted our podcast or they rebooted a clip of our podcast and put it on on YouTube.

Unknown Speaker 17:07 Which was kind of funny. Since I think that was one that was the one we were talking about copyright. I don't remember exactly. But

Brady 17:14 those freebooters they have a sense of humor.

Grey 17:21 But it's funny to hear you say,

Brady 17:24 What do you got? What else? Anything else you want to follow up? Follow up? Is it time to move on as a time to move on from the past and talk about the now?

Grey 17:32 I think so. I think there is we have cleared out the follow up for this episode.

Brady 17:37 Oh, that no, I know we haven't. Okay. I just want to thank the person who wrote in the comments and refer to me as the white Morgan Freeman.

Grey 17:47 Oh, yeah, that's quite a compliment.

Brady 17:48 And I because I mean, clearly, clearly, you have the broadcasting voice in the studio. And I'm basically just a passenger. So to be referred to as the what Morgan Freeman was a was a special moment for me and I will. I'll treasure that.

Grey 18:04 That is that is very nice. It's terribly misguided as it was. Hello internet This episode is brought to you by Squarespace the all in one platform that makes it fast and easy to create your own professional website portfolio or online store. They have beautiful designs for you to start with. And they have a ton of style options. You can create a unique website for you or your business, they released 20 new customizable templates this year, and every design automatically includes a mobile experience that then matches the overall style of your website. So your content looks great on every device every time. The thing that I like most about Squarespace is that their unlimited internet is actually unlimited. Trust me internet, I speak from experience when I say that most website providers unlimited plans are not really unlimited. And you're only going to find out at the worst possible moment like say when a cool thing you've made gets onto the front page of Reddit and suddenly your site is just shut down. That experience is just so emotionally devastating. It's very hard to articulate unless you have been through it which I have multiple times before I found Squarespace. So I really mean it when I say that their unlimited plan has got to be probably my most favorite thing about them. And it is why, for example that I chose to host this podcast on Squarespace because I suspected there might be a whole bunch of traffic in the beginning and there sure was we ended up getting several hundred thousand downloads of the first few episodes when we announced the launch. And there was just no problem there at all downloaded I didn't get hit with some surprise bill, it worked. And just the relief of knowing that it was going to work from my previous experiences with Squarespace was just in valuable. So if you were making anything on the internet that you hope might get any kind of publicity. Say you're a photographer or you run a business and you're trying to get placement in the media or you're trying to get yourself mentioned on social media. You want to have an unlimited plan to back you up on that one in case you actually do go viral. And Squarespace has a new metric app which allows you to check your stats on the go which you can do obsessive Lee, especially if, say you've just launched a new podcast. So again, Squarespace is good for everyone. Whether you need a simple website solution or you're a developer and you want to get into the code, there are just so many options and it starts at just $8 a month and includes a free domain name if you sign up for a year, so you can start today a trial with no credit card required and build your website. When you decide to sign up for Squarespace. Make sure to use the offer code Hello internet to get 10% off and show your support for this podcast. You can also go to Squarespace by clicking the link in the show notes and going to squarespace.com slash Hello internet. That's all one word squarespace.com slash Hello internet. So again, we would like to thank Squarespace for their support Squarespace. Everything you need to create an exceptional website. What do you been up to? As you know, I have been in the middle of moving flats, which is part of the craziness we referred to in the previous episode. With life everything always happens all at once. And so it was Last week I was I was trying to, we were launching this podcast, I had a video that was way overdue. And my wife and I were flat hunting in London for various time sensitive reasons. And so everything happens at once. And that has been what has kind of been occupying a lot of my time during the days is, is that big project?

Brady 21:21 What do you like when you move house? Because you're kind of, I always think of you as this high tech guy. And you know, you're very paperless. And is there any Is there anything to do? How do you utilize technology when you're moving house?

Grey 21:34 I don't know if how I utilize the technology. But I would say that I I enjoy moving mainly because it is a great excuse to purge as many physical items from my life as I possibly can. And people people around me as sort of in the orbit of my life. Notice that I am I am not a fan of physical objects and Sometimes people want to give me gifts, you know, people in my life that know it's my birthday or at some event or some celebration. And I'm always trying to tell people, the best gift that you can give me is nothing, I am genuinely like, I will be happier, to not receive a gift. And to then not have the burden of this object to take care of, or to have in my house at some place. And so I really worked very hard to try to minimize the number of things that I have. But it is still you always end up with just some stuff that is completely unavoidable. And whenever you move that is just the perfect opportunity to get rid of as many things as you possibly can. And so I feel like, over the course of my life, there have been two trends with each move, I've sort of cut down and pared down my life to an even greater minimalism. And then of course, over that time, as technology has increased, there are fewer and fewer physical things that I actually need to begin with. So I view my own life now is basically I have my clothes, and I have my electronics. And, and that is the bulk of the things that are personally mine. And then there's always some miscellanea that is around that, but I try to try to keep it as small as possible. But

Brady 23:17 I have a question. Yeah. What, what? Like, what does your What does your flat look like? Is it just all like white walls and empty shelves or like D like D

Grey 23:29 pictures or it's a, my, you know, my ideal place would be as empty and a Spartan as possible, you know? But of course, you know, you have to have stuff in your apartment, you know, there's couches, and you need cutlery and there are these other items. But I just I try to keep that at as much of a minimum as humanly possible. And every once in a while I do go through all of my stuff and like okay, what can I get rid of and I get real Excited about figuring out something that I don't have to have anymore.

Brady 24:05 What's something you've got rid of over the last couple of days as you prepare for this current move that excited you?

Grey 24:14 Okay, so actually one of the things that I've gotten rid of was some old workloads that had somehow still been able to live at the back of my closet unnoticed from my teaching days. So I was very happy to get rid of those. So some some jackets and some ties that had somehow escaped my notice. So I was very pleased to get rid of those. But I haven't done my proper purge yet. Because just been involved with other things. So tomorrow is actually going to be my big big purge day. But I've just done a little bit of things.

Brady 24:47 So as I look around my office at the moment, I have like this out globe of the moon, and a teddy bear from my childhood and a bunch of stones I've collected from places around the world and our God trophies and framed pictures. Cricket bats and an old fashioned telescope and

Grey 25:06 every one of those things is like a horror to me hearing you describe that what did

Brady 25:09 they What did they make you feel that what's the emotion you feel at the thought of owning trinkets?

Grey 25:15 trinkets, even the word is so gross. I mean, trinkets, right? I mean it just just worthless stuff that is taking up space is on it's just awful. It's just what what do you want to use

Brady 25:30 that space for though, like, if you have all this space that I don't have?

Grey 25:35 How do you base space is space is like freeing to the mind. So I do have to say I have really enjoyed right since we're in between flats, we have keys to both places for the next week or so. And we haven't yet moved everything into the new flat and so the new flat is basically empty. And boys that just great, right? You leave all this space and it just it feels so free. I don't know I feel like every object that is in my sort of my visual sweep x is like a like a tiny burden on the mind. And so this is why I really like to just empty out as much as humanly possible. So that is that is my feeling towards trinkets is like they're all just a burden somehow and that's the words the word trinket just Oh, it's grown my mentor you know, I have I have no momentum is really amazing. Obviously, we have like pictures and things. I'm not a crazy person, right? But I've digital. I've digital pictures. And you know what, when, like, when I go on, on vacations and things, my wife and I do what we call memory shots where we're not necessarily trying to get a good picture like Oh, look at this beautiful mountain or anything. We're just taking a picture so that we remember whatever it is in the future, you know, when we get when we look back through our photo album. But the worst thing I could imagine is, you know, by Some like, junky, key ring of the Eiffel Tower to be like, oh, remember when we went to the Eiffel Tower, right? And now this thing just has to be there in your life forever taking up space. It's just terrible. That's absolutely terrible.

Unknown Speaker 27:14 Then how come

Brady 27:16 society the other day, and they pulled out Isaac Newton's draft at the Principia? You wanted to hold it and have your photo taken with it?

Grey 27:24 Oh, yeah. Oh, that was great. It's great. I'm comparing the original theater and Eiffel Tower catering, of course. Now, of course, it is great that somebody else stores that. Right? I have. My philosophy is not for museums, right? I love that museums exist. I love that there are archivists who keep track of all of this stuff. I just, I have no need to be some kind of archivist for my own life. That's just it.

Brady 27:52 Isn't that what your house is? You know, in a way it's a little it can be a little Museum of you. That's so

Grey 27:57 gross. Know that. Know that the Every thought of that seems just wrong to me, your space your house, that your space is to be used in an optimal way. And it's not like you would say Museum, right? I would say like it's a mausoleum, right, like, like you are, you are being buried and entombed with all of this stuff that you have collected over a lifetime. And so I feel very strongly about this. But I will just say that, that my, my wife has made the comment, which might not be untrue, that, you know, the TV show hoarders, I don't know if it's not in the UK or not.

Brady 28:36 I can imagine what it's about. And I've seen these documentaries with someone's

Grey 28:40 Yeah, if you've seen documentaries about hoarders, right, people who keep everything, and my wife says, it might not be untrue, that I am basically like, the opposite of a hoarder in that, right. hoarders have a hard time letting go of objects, obviously too hard of a time. Letting go of objects. And so she thinks that I am basically the reverse. I have too easy of a time letting go of objects and that I'm just I'm way too willing to just get rid of stuff. So I I'm not necessarily arguing with her there.

Brady 29:16 Is there a tension here? Like does she say oh, no, can I please keep that as you sort of throw away her

Grey 29:23 engagement ring? No, no, I would never I would never throw away her stuff. Right. That's that's, that's not cool. This is mostly related to my own stuff. And and there is a flip side to this, which is, which is on the computer. I keep way more stuff that is probably reasonable. Like I don't even want to know but I know I probably have hundreds of thousands of digital files of some kind or another on my computer. But again, I don't mind about that at all because it just, it doesn't matter. Right. It doesn't take up any physical space. I don't need to see it. So that doesn't that doesn't bother me at all. But you're right, my ideal office would be as empty as possible sort of a desk and a laptop. And that would be just about it. And in my, in my perfect office, I'm aware that this makes you sound like really cool. And I think people are gonna, like hear this and go, gray. So cool. He's like, functional and he's the modern digital man and everything. But just between you and me.

Brady 30:24 Yeah, you do realize this is unusual. This trait is behavior you're exhibiting is highly unusual to be this extreme about objects.

Grey 30:36 I Well, what I would say is that I have just I have just thought it through that like, what, what does this momento do for you that like a picture of the momento wouldn't also do and and what it like what are you going to do when you're 10 years or 20 years older, and you're looking at still carrying around 10 or 20 years worth of just stuff that that I think that would be my perspective on it is I'm trying to, like look forward to, you know what, what's going to happen here, you're just going to keep accumulating things. And so you have to just not

Brady 31:16 physical things, you know, I mean, we could have just taken photos of the moon, but we wanted to go and step on it and touch it. And we are of this world

Grey 31:28 arguing that people shouldn't go to the moon. I'm also arguing that when astronauts are on the moon, they should grab all the moon stuff they possibly can and bring it back just right. Just Yeah, I don't want to keep it you know, but somebody should definitely keep that that's what we have museums for. So that's, that's kind of my thoughts on this. But yeah, I do try to get rid of just as much stuff as I possibly can. And living living in a absolutely tiny tiny London flat. Definitely brings that home in a way that that Like if I was living in America, it would not also be So, uh, so apparent, like the physical objects that you have in your life. Yeah. But anyway, so I'm looking forward to ditching all my stuff tomorrow.

Brady 32:11 I am flying tomorrow. Yeah. So it's late at night and after this podcast, I will start thinking about packing. Are you a light Packer? Are you someone who gets it done nice and early?

Grey 32:24 I have a checklist that I use every time for packing. No, really? Yes, I do. I do that might surprise you. But I have I have a checklist. I mentioned before I use a program called OmniFocus. And I have a checklist that I can reactivate every time I'm about to pack that has an enormous list of things that are the potential things that I might need to bring with me. And so I use that I usually pack the day before but I have to say that I find the packing process very stressful for for no particular reason I don't I don't like it at all. But

Brady 33:03 so you involves a whole bunch of physical objects.

Grey 33:06 I guess so. Yeah, I just I do not like packing, I find it. Yeah, I find it uncomfortable and stressful. And I still worry about forgetting stuff. But um, what time are you leaving tomorrow because we're recording this at like eight o'clock at night.

Brady 33:22 I'm leaving. I'm actually not till the afternoon. So I have got some I've got some buffer, but I will always leave it to the last possible minute. And

Grey 33:29 how's that work out for you?

Brady 33:31 Always badly. And this is this has been a particularly unpleasant, unpleasant one, because I'm going away for quite a long time. And we're going away for like five weeks. And I'm going to be working while I'm away, which is unusual for me to to be editing while I'm away. I know. I know. You do it a bit more. And I've got a new reasonably new laptop. And I've just like this evening thought, I'm going to need some bits of software and some things on here. That haven't really thought about I've been trying to sort that out forgetting how terrible I am with computers and the problems I have with software and all sorts of things and it's just turning into this nightmare and nothing works and now I'm actually you know, becoming a bit anxious about it all. So and this is this is aside from like any clothes and things that I'm going to need sort of more worried about what hard drives and are going to need and which cables and what microphone and what lens and the software computer things been causing me the most problems.

Grey 34:32 Well, that is because you have a speaking of physical objects. You have a mountain of tapes and hard drives that you work with for all of the all of the video that you've captured

Brady 34:44 it I have gone typeless now But yeah, I have a lot, a lot of material, a lot of material. So you have to manage which of those drives are going to actually be bringing with him. I'm not taking the big drops with me. I'm just dragging over a bit. Some pieces that I think I might need a good problem has been the new Mac operating system on the MacBook Pro the Mavericks nothing, nothing works on it. So all this stuff all these all the software that I paid a fortune for, nothing works and I don't know what to do. I'm gonna have to buy a whole bunch of new software and go kind of folder. It's crazy. So unlike so I'm sitting here thinking, trying to make things work and looking on the internet to find out if there's a way to make this old piece of software work on that. And I'm just really bad that stuff anyway, people always think I must know a bit about computers because I work on them but i don't i'm rubbish. It's been I need you basically I need you to be here and just like sit next to me for three or four hours and just sort me out. I know it's too late for that to

Unknown Speaker 35:52 say gonna be able to help you there now and so is is this podcast and basically are you procrastinating with packing by

Brady 36:00 Do me know, but don't feel bad because I would find some other way to procrastinate. As soon as we finish, I'll probably think I think I might just add one more number for our video.

Grey 36:07 Good. Okay,

Brady 36:08 that's the sort of thing I will do. And then like 2am I think All right, now, definitely get it back. But you did help me the other day when I had to, I had to go on a whole bunch of lights. And I forgot my headphones. And it's funny that I forgot my headphones because like, you do have this kind of technology mentor role in my life. I know kind of like my own personal sort of Siri that I that I say, Oh, I need an app for this or I need a gadget that will do this. And I just contact you and you told me what to do.

Grey 36:40 Yes, I have. I have noticed this that you you have you are leaning on me for recommendations. Yeah. And in particular, when we are physically together. We both put our phones on the table. You just purchase the you know the iPhone case that I recommended. So we both have phones that look exactly the same.

Brady 36:55 And that's really disconcerting to me because you always think the other ones like grabbing your phone and right You intellectually know that's not the case. It's really makes you feel really anxious when you think someone else has just grabbed your phone.

Grey 37:05 Yes, yes, I've definitely noticed that you are increasingly leaning on my recommendations for this

Brady 37:10 is the funny thing is the one piece of technology that I recommend to you was these headphones. So I take I don't know you use them. And I take some pride in that. Yes.

Grey 37:21 I love them.

Brady 37:22 Yeah. So the great irony was then I then forgot my headphones going on this trip. And it was like a long trip and it was for flights and I had lots of things I wanted to listen to. And obviously airline headphones, and acceptable so I did I did text you and you kind of counseled me through the pros and cons of, of purchasing another pair.

Grey 37:45 Yeah. Okay. Well, let's let's clarify the situation here for people right. So we're not you what you're talking about. I don't know the name of them. The Bose noise cancelling have

Brady 37:55 a really good.

Grey 37:57 Yeah, they're they're basically they're a pro Level headphone. They're Active Noise Cancelling. They're just very, very good at isolating noise. And for doing audio editing and video editing. They're basically a requirement. Once you've ever tried them, you realize how did I ever get worked on before this? Yeah. And so you were going to go you had you'd lost them or I can't move with the detail.

Brady 38:20 I just forgot them. I just left them at home and I was driven,

Unknown Speaker 38:24 which, okay, so you were already at the airport. I was already at the airport,

Brady 38:27 I could go back and get them because I was like, you know, 44 hours, I would miss my flight. Yes, I had forgotten them. I had to four flights of stairs to Vietnam. So it was four flights very long. Yes, I had, I did have some work. I wanted to do some podcasts I listened to and yes, I didn't. And I had this quandary of you know, do I do I get another pair?

Grey 38:48 Okay. Yeah. So So you were at the airport. And from, from my perspective, you knew what the right decision was. the right decision is I'm going to be stepping onto an airplane in Which I have no control over my environment, it's going to be very uncomfortable for a long period of time. And I need to get a bunch of work done on these flights. Should I purchase this pair of headphones that will allow me to have a little bit of more comfort? And to get more work done? And obviously, the answer was yes. Right? Yes, you should purchase these headphones again at the airport. Because when you were on the plane, there's just there's always going to be horrors on an airplane, right? That's, that's you just can do nothing about right. There's screaming babies, right? Or there's just people who talk loud or there's all kinds of just stuff that can distract you in this terrible way. These headphones do just take that all away. Yes. And the only thing that you can do to protect yourself is to have a set of noise cancelling headphones, and especially if you need to get some work done. It would totally make sense to buy them, but you were hemming and hawing for from my perspective. Just know apparent reason it was the clear decision to do and you contacted me because you knew that I would bully you into buying headphones so that you could get your work done and have a slightly more comfortable flight which I believe you did in the end is that correct and I could let blame you as well that's right so this is also add Yes, you can blame me for making you buy the headphones even though it was obviously the right choice.

Brady 40:20 I'll probably text you from the airport tomorrow and say great, you're not gonna believe this.

Grey 40:26 Yeah, you forgotten your headphones again. Yeah. Just Just love I was just you made me pull up. I'm looking over I'm looking over my own pre flight checklist and it is who it is enormous. We give

Brady 40:41 us just a little taste.

Grey 40:43 Okay, so I it's broken into two sections, which is the pre travel and then the the packing to like a bunch of stuff you need to get ready before you can pack in a sense. So I have a list of all the things that need to need to be charged I have a note to make sure that I have downloaded and updated all my podcasts, printing backup information for flights and hotels. Check into the flight online. Oh, this one you like empty my wallet. So I go through my wallet and take out all the cards and things that I can't possibly need wherever I'm going to because I want my wallet to have the least number of things possible in it. So I have these kind of crazy ones that often just I don't have to check but I just wanted I wanted there so I see it. So one of them is find out the emergency phone number in the country that you're going to just sort of have that on the top of mind in case I need to make an emergency phone call for some reason. I need to double check my travel insurance and then get into the packing section. So I have this long list. Do you realize how much you're filling me with more panic they're not good. So here we go. Alright, so I have I have packed the GoPro you know that little that little camera. Have you know socks and underwear. I have that Kindle I have glasses, clothes, sunglasses, toiletries, US passport, Irish passport, laptop power converters, iPhone, iPad wires. Guy The thing that I hate the most HSBC Bank dongle I don't know if you have one of these things but like this little this little key thing that you need to punch a number into log into your HSBC Bank. I hate that thing so much. I have literally taken that around the world. I need to take it with me. There you go. Okay, put that in your bag right now.

Brady 42:32 I should be writing this down.

Grey 42:33 Yeah, I have got I shades I have my you health card in case I'm traveling to the EU. Fitbit Oh, here we go pack noise cancelling headphones. That's the Bose headphones. wireless headphones. Oh, and I'll tell you, this is the best one for the United States. pack a physical pen for customs. Because if you're going to the US, there's when you get into America. There's always a section where You have to fill out this little custom card. And nobody has physical pens with them and there are never enough at the airport. And you can save yourself like an hour just by packing a pen, and to be ready to fill out the stupid piece of paper you need to fill out when you go to the United States. So that's part of my checklist and all of the things that I tried to think of for every possible occasion when when traveling. We were Boy Scout, I was not no Uh, well, I was very briefly in the Boy Scouts when I was very young and hated it and left as fast as I possibly could. It's not always be prepared. I do like to always be prepared but that conflicts with my dislike of nature, which Boy Scouts obviously involves a lot of so

Brady 43:42 nature is just like physical objects everywhere.

Unknown Speaker 43:44 It's so untidy nature

Brady 43:46 so I mean, I remember we went for a walk around like a forest in California didn't meet with some of the some of the gang were you just hating that way it was looking really now No,

Grey 43:55 that's that's different, right because those kinds of things are basically nature. As theme park from my perspective, right? Oh, okay, there's like a little path we're going to walk around. It's sort of a nice it's a nice change. That's enjoyable, but nature as Oh, like just recreation or camping or I'm going to put myself through this physically uncomfortable process of you know, spending a night and night outdoors, like it's the Neolithic age. I'm not going to do that not voluntarily. I understand people enjoy that. That's great for them. But I am a big fan of technology and the indoors indoors is very nice. So Boy Scouts was not for me.

Brady 44:40 So like I went to this toilet in the pole,

Grey 44:46 okay, which

Brady 44:48 was like a hole in the ground in a little shed. And it was like, very smelly and very, very unpleasant and, but also this Little toilet shared had a dual purpose. It was also where they let drive their yakhdan. So all three walls other than where the door was, was like from see it from ground to ceiling. yakhdan just piled. Just you know, Pat's piled on top of each other. I'm guessing you wouldn't have liked it.

Grey 45:20 I would not have a I would not have appreciated that toilet now. But I'm also like, because I know who I am. I would try to avoid putting myself in that kind of travel situation in the first place.

Brady 45:34 Yeah, I bet you look a bit. That's one of the things you love about Japan too. They have the best toilets.

Grey 45:39 They do. They do. That was 100% true.

Brady 45:42 It's like being the controls of the space shuttle when you go to the toilet in Japan. Like they have those like consoles with buttons. And

Grey 45:50 you know what, while we're on the top because I can imagine that Japan is going to come up very frequently in the podcast, but I will just mention there are many things that I like about Japan. I love that everything He's just super neat and tidy. Right? So So just like any store everywhere you go like everything is tiny boxes. It is all very neat and clean. And I like that. And I have to say, I adore and love the Japanese people for their custom of the facemask when they are sick. It's like if our God if I could make that a cultural thing in the world I would so do that. Like I deeply appreciate everyone who wears a face mask when they are sick. I just I think that is that is the greatest so

Brady 46:32 they're all they're sick when they're doing that. Yes, I often see people like on planes and that with masks and I always like I always think they're trying to avoid getting sick from me and I always like take offense to it. They're doing it for me.

Grey 46:46 Yeah, they're doing that for your benefit. If you are if you are sick, you wear a face mask and that is obviously the way that it should be done. And ever, you know not you know abundance, a very cosmopolitan place every once in a while. I will see some some Japanese people who have a face mask on. And it's like, oh god, I am so thankful for you to you for wearing that face mask. Obviously, this is what everybody should do. But it is not what everybody does. And then you are in underground and there's just oh god. I mean, you just think about all the surfaces that you have to touch and all the people who have touched them and how many of them have been sick and there's sneezing and coughing and it's just it's amazing that people can not be sick all the time considering how many other human beings you are exposed to. So yeah, anyway, that's just a side note, Japan. Thumbs up for me for the facemasks. Well done, guys.

Brady 47:35 I really love it. I'll give you my thumbs up for Japan. Yeah, we go to this music festival. They're called Fuji rock, which is you know, a music festival outdoors and you can cancel you can't stay in hotels or you can camp. Anyway, I won't bore you with the details of the festival. I don't know what you know music festivals but almost nothing. In the UK music festivals are almost as famous for their lawlessness and unsanitary conditions as they after the music like Lester Bria famously the toilets are terrible and ugly, you know it. I don't imagine it would be an experience you would find pleasant. So anyway, we went to the we go to this music festival in Japan and it's the exact opposite it's like it's been completely Japanese artist. And it's just everyone is so good and like people will put out like a picnic ground getting ready for the music and put their valuables on it and then just go decide they want to go and get a drink or something and just leave this stuff and like people won't steal it and walk on it. It'll just be left there.

Grey 48:43 That's amazing. I at one point I lost my

Brady 48:45 camera I left my camera in a toilet funnily enough the toilets are also lovely there. I left my camera in a toilet. Someone found it, handed it in. Got my camera back later. They queue they will lie up at the recycling bins to make sure they put the right rubbish in the right result, I saw this line going those people lining up for what's at the end. And that was the bottle line and someone else was lining up in there. And they will make sure they put everything in the right bins. That's amazing. It's crazy. They're like, they do things right there. You would love it. I mean, yeah, you do love it. But you would you this is if you're going to go to a music festival. This is probably the only one I'm making you could be dragged along

Grey 49:26 to. That sounds about right. Yeah. So music festivals in Japan, I guess. Maybe I will go to everywhere else. No, thank you. It looks terrible.

Brady 49:34 Let me tell you one other observation about this music festival, I think will lead on to the topic that we were thinking of discussing today. Because Another thing I was talking to an English guy who runs was involved with running this festival. It guy's name is actually Johnny fingers. He was in the Boomtown rats for people have been to radio music, but that's by the by, and I was talking to him about it. So why do you know One of the people that coming to this festival, and he said one of the things that Japanese people really liked about this festival was a deliberate decision made made to not plaster advertising everywhere. It's like sit on this mountainside trees. And it's a very beautiful place. And they've kept it looking very natural. Whereas most places you go in Japan, obviously, you know, you have your lights and your signs and screens and you can't, you can't move your eyes anywhere without being completely bombarded by advertising. And he said, for them, it's a really strange and enjoyable experience to be able to go somewhere for two or three days and not see advertising. absolutely everywhere. So speaking of seeing advertising, absolutely everywhere.

Grey 50:44 Yeah. So that's one of the things we were thinking about. Talking about today is the advertising industry. The I think this is this is a very difficult topic to talk about. When is it okay, when is it not okay, ad blockers that like there's this whole world of things related to the advertising world, there's some topics in life where I think it is almost impossible to have some kind of consistent opinion that you also always follow through on. And I think advertising is one of those kinds of things. No matter what your thoughts are in advertising, no matter how much you think it through, there's always going to be some point where you're acting in a way that is like hypocritical to what you might think if you if you wrote it down on a piece of paper and said, this is the way stuff should be. So yeah, I just, I have a whole bunch of notes. I'm not exactly sure where to start. But I just I think that that's like the opener there is I am probably going to say things that are inconsistent with things that I say later and I think that that is just part of the complication of advertising. And I think that that is also why it's an interesting topic is there there are many different layers to this.

Brady 51:53 So I mean, II, you thinking about advertising sort of in in the context closest to home for us. Appreciate lock arms kind of YouTube videos and things like that.

Grey 52:02 Yeah so that's that's kind of the place to start is that both of us have our incomes dependent on advertising advertising if you were to watch one of my videos there's advertising on it if you go to watch one of your videos, there's advertising on it through various means sometimes that people click sometimes even if they don't we earn like a commission from that advertising being displayed. And so like that is that is the core of how we can make our livings and how many YouTubers make their livings is, is through that. Maybe the place to start is is the most contentious on the internet is the role of ad blocking software. Yeah. Which I was going back and forth today about whether or not we should even talk about this topic again, because it's it's hard to discuss, especially when you're living depends on advertising. But ad blocking software exists. And you can you can find many people saying very many different things about it. And it is. It's just tricky. And but before I say anything, I'm going to put you on the spot. Do you have any initial thoughts about ad blocking software?

Brady 53:14 To? It's something I never really think about? Really, it doesn't it doesn't know I never think about it. And in fact, one of the first times I have ever I mean, I'm aware of it, of course, and you know, I see comments about it, and I'll see a comment on my video or someone will say are, these ads are a pain in the backside and sometimes I want to use adblock pro 3000 and stuff like that.

Grey 53:37 Yeah, there's so many.

Brady 53:38 Yeah, and I just kind of let that wash over me. And but the other day I was talking to someone about my he was a big YouTube watcher. And I was telling her about the fact I make videos and he did say to me, how do you feel about ad blocking software? I use it. What do you think about that? And it was the first time someone had asked me specifically and I don't know. It's kind of I take bit of it. Don't Ask Don't Tell. Yes, it undermines a source of income for us. It infringes upon our

Grey 54:15 Well, this is why it's a good follow up. Right. It's, it's related to the infringement thing.

Brady 54:19 Yeah. These are these people freebooters I don't know.

Unknown Speaker 54:24 But anyway,

Brady 54:26 I guess naive Lee, I don't think much about it. And I should point out that, you know, advertising isn't isn't complete is to be all and end all for me for Right. Right. My business model and likewise for you Now, obviously, with other things coming coming downstream.

Grey 54:44 And with Subbable as well. Yeah, it's not it's not the end all be all, but it's definitely, for me anyway, I can say that advertising is the majority of my Yeah,

Brady 54:52 and it's and it's very important, and it's very important for other people to so and it sustains You know, it helps the creators get paid there. You know, for most of the time, there are other ways they can be sustained. So I guess my position should be that I wish people wouldn't block the ads. Yeah, I guess that's just my that's my default position, but I don't feel any fire and brimstone. about it. I guess. I don't know how prevalent disorders.

Grey 55:21 Yeah, I was I was I was googling around earlier today trying to find some numbers for, you know, what, how many people actually use ad blocking software? And I could not find anything reliable, but I would say all the numbers were somewhere between 5% at a kind of minimum, and and I saw a couple of very high numbers, but none of them were over 30% at a maximum.

Brady 55:46 That's much higher than I would have thought, I guess.

Grey 55:49 But who knows? This is it like, I don't know. And the numbers that were saying 30% were coming from ad blocking software themselves. Yeah. And so you know, I don't know if it's it If it's in their interest to over inflate those numbers or what but

Brady 56:03 I guess our core audience to are people who watch a lot of YouTube videos and therefore they're likely to more likely to have it than someone who just occasionally watches the idea to get a recipe.

Grey 56:13 Yeah. And so I think here's, here's where the complication comes in. For me sitting down just thinking about a situation, it's obvious that ad blocking software, in aggregate is not good for the internet. I think there's there's no argument against that because there are so many things that rely on advertising to be made. And I know I often see people say, Oh, you know, whatever it is should use some kind of alternative funding method you know, you should sell stuff or sure there are other ways to to do business. But that doesn't change the fact that that lots of things on the internet just couldn't exist without advertising in their in their current form. Yes. Or the very people who say, you know, you should have a different business model would like it. way less If every video site on the internet suddenly charged membership fees, and there was just nowhere to watch videos for free, yeah, right that that is obviously worse for everybody. And, and like my own videos, I like lots of people to see my videos. And the only way that that can work where I can have lots of people see them and be able to support myself is to have ads on them. They're just there isn't any other way that that can really work on such a large scale. So it is it is undeniable that in aggregate, ad blocking software is bad for the internet. The problem is, and I'm forgetting the name for it, but it's like there's an economic name for this but the impact of ad blocking software on any one individuals computer is not is not going to break anything. And and that is always the fundamental Conflict is that for any one person, they can say, well, it doesn't make a difference to create or x if I have ad blocking software if I don't. And that is true, but but as the number of people who say that increases, it does start to become a problem in aggregate costs. And that is where the fundamental conflict comes in. And I was trying to think think through some of some of my thoughts on this a little bit earlier. And so while I can say that, you know, shouldn't have ad blocking software advertising is what is supporting a lot of things that I love on the internet. Something that kept popping into my mind is is a comparison with fast forwarding the commercials on TV. Yeah, or if people have like a like a TiVo now, fast forward through the commercials. I think the TiVo is even had like a commercial skip button. Apparently, I'm not exactly sure how that works.

Brady 58:53 Yeah. We deliberately like if, as a TV show, we want to watch or deliberately go for a cup of tea or some food first so that we build up Bit of buffer stop looking fast for the ads.

Grey 59:02 Okay, so you know, so yeah, you just you can zip through them. So. So here's the thing while I can feel that very passionately about the internet and like, I totally love the Internet, and I think ad blocking software in aggregate is bad for the internet. I would never even like hesitate or think twice to fast forward through TV commercials. Yeah. I mean, it wouldn't, it would not even wouldn't even cause a nanoseconds worth of hesitation in my mind, like, Well, obviously, I'm just going to fast forward these commercials. But the same exact arguments apply. Right? That to those TV shows are there because advertisements have are what's supporting them? Yeah. And so that's why I mean, it's just it's impossible to just not be a total hypocrite in some way with regard to the advertising industry. I mean, the only difference is,

Brady 59:50 you know, we are we are very selectively measured on whether or not people watch the ads, whereas no one knows who's fast forwarding and and the team Companies are kind of a bit, you know, they have to have to guess as to who's watching in terms of that fast forwarding scenario, as far as I know, and I think they can measure who fast forwarded through the ads. And yeah, so so me fast forwarding through the ads when I watch a TV show, is is not? Is it different? It seems different to me like I understand it, I understand the principle is the same. But it's not quite such a direct hit.

Grey 1:00:29 So I would argue that it is is absolutely no different at all, though. You want it to be different. You think, Oh, well, they don't they don't know. They're just paying for a certain amount of advertising. But the the fundamental argument still applies that advertisers are trying to figure out whether it is cost effective to advertise on certain mediums. Yeah, right. And, in some sense, from the advertisers perspective, they just care if an advertising campaign is profitable. Yeah, and and the rest of it can be a bit of a black box from their perspective. So People who are some some portion of the population blocking ads and some portion of the population fast forwarding that is built into what's called like a, like a return on investment calculation that the advertisers have to do. Is it worth buying more advertising in this particular medium? Or is it not? Yeah. So that's why it's like, I was doing the same thing earlier when I was thinking about, like, I'm trying to find a way the TV is different, but it just is it

Brady 1:01:23 I understand. I mean, so you're saying by me fast forwarding the ads through Downton Abbey? I'm not allowing myself to be influenced and then maybe go out and buy that can of coke afterwards. And that all gets affected and how many cans of coke they sell that year? gets factored into some big equation algorithm.

Grey 1:01:41 Yeah, that's that's exactly right. And and so you're, you're skipping the ads is sort of making Downton Abbey less profitable per view. From the from the producers perspective, and from the advertisers perspective as well.

Brady 1:01:53 Yes. Because even though I think I'm immune to advertising, I'm not

Grey 1:01:56 Yeah, that's one of the things that drives me absolutely crazy when I because these this argument comes up on the internet all the time over over advertising. And the thing that drives me crazy is that people who on the internet say like, Oh, I never clicked an ad. And so it doesn't matter if I run ad blocking software anyway. Like, that's not how a lot of the advertisements work, you know, like on on YouTube gonna have to be big for some reasons. But sometimes you get paid because someone clicks but but many times you don't a person doesn't have to click it all. An advertisement is just based on the impression. And so it doesn't even matter that people who say that they never click and buy something that's that is not how all of the ads work. That's how many of them work but not all of them. Yes. So yeah, it's just it is a it's a very complicated issue. And and I hate stuff like this where I can't, I can't come to a perfectly consistent opinion about, you know, what should be or how things should work. Do you use ad blocking software? Right. So that is the question. Isn't it right? Do I have ad blocker installed on my own computer? And the answer is that I do not right. I do. Now.

Brady 1:03:11 You're depriving me. You never watch my videos anyway.

Grey 1:03:14 Yeah. So, there's there's some qualifications to this. Okay? Right. The first of all, is that I'm very aggressive with what's what's called a whitelist. So you can select websites where you will allow the ads to display. And so I do have that set for YouTube. And I have that set for a bunch of websites that I regularly visit because I don't want to deprive them of impression based advertising revenue. But it is it is weird because that same argument that I I made before is that I I also know and, again, I you know, I can't speak to specifics because of the sort of contracts we signed with YouTube but like, I know that my individual unblocking of websites makes it negligible difference in their actual revenue. And so it's it's weird because

Brady 1:04:06 it's like voting that wasn't one vote doesn't change an election, but if everyone didn't vote,

Grey 1:04:11 man, that is a really good comparison. That is a really good comparison. And so so, yeah, it's this is where the conflict comes from is like it's a symbolic gesture almost in both ways, right to whitelist or to adblock. Because there are there's there's one side in particular that I'm kind of happy to to the adblock on. And, and it's because I do not want to give them revenue, but it is impossible to avoid them. Sometimes. It's like, I don't want my accidental clicks, you know, to give this place any revenue.

Brady 1:04:50 You're not naming this for a reason.

Grey 1:04:53 I'm going to say imager because that's how I say it in my mind. I don't think that's really how it's pronounced. But it's, I am g you are Yeah. And I'm probably gonna make a lot of Reddit people very angry when I say this, but I am not a fan of the mature. And I haven't been since the beginning because I think its whole existence is predicated on just massive copyright infringement. Right? That is basically what the website is, is the place for people to to host

Brady 1:05:26 It's a place where people freebo

Grey 1:05:29 Yes, it's just everywhere. Well, no, okay, that the users are not freebooters Okay, just not freebooters. But the website as a whole, is I'm so

Unknown Speaker 1:05:39 happy to hear you saying free pictures.

Grey 1:05:43 And one of the places that it really gets me on Reddit is people will host people will find like some web comic that they think is really funny. And they uploaded imager, and then submitted to read it because an imager loads very quickly. And so like well What has happened here is that you've now directed Reddit traffic to an image that does not belong to imager, but imager is getting all the money from it. They are getting the advertising revenue from people looking at this web comic and the original web comic artist is not getting any revenue from that at all.

Brady 1:06:18 Until you went cold stealing.

Grey 1:06:21 Yes, it is different it is not feeling. But but it it really bothers me. I mean, I under I understand the need for a site like imager to some extent, you know, and there are historical reasons why image hosting sites exist, which I think are less of a modern problem. But it used to be that you know, you could just assume that anybody's website would just completely crash when a place like Reddit links to it. Yeah. And so nobody would be able to see the thing in the first place, which is why sites like imager came into existence, but I find that that is less and less the case. Websites crashing under the pressure. So this historical reasons why this thing kind of exist, but I do not want whitelist imager, because, like, I, I don't like the existence of your site, I wish that people would link to the actual web comic or the actual photographer who took this picture and not just put everything up on this gallery. So I have I have conflicted feelings about images, but it's hugely popular with Reddit people so I imagine lots of are going to be angry about angry about my dislike of it, but I don't. But if you use Reddit, it is just impossible to avoid a mature

Brady 1:07:30 good case for it so that you might make people angry, but i think i think it's a fair point. Maybe it is league like there's nothing illegal about ad blocking software is areas.

Grey 1:07:39 Okay, so So yeah, here's, here's where I think the like a really interesting question about ad blocking software is, is that there's an implicit agreement with websites like YouTube, and anything that makes content available for free. That the price of admission is those ads Right that that is basically how you are paying for admission to this website in a way. But what I find very interesting is that there's there's a lot of question about how or what are the rights that a computer user has to control the software that runs on their machine? And and that's where I think that ad blocking software is very interesting. Because I'm a very much absolutist over this. I think that general purpose computers, which are laptops, meaning they can, they can run any computer code that you give them. I think that the end users should have extreme control over their own machine. And that that means that I could not imagine any kind of world where running ad blocking software could be against the law. For example, Or you could try to like sue a particular user for damages for running ad blocking software. Because I think that you really should be able to have just total control over your machine and the code that is run upon it. But what I wanted to say is, I don't know. Yeah, there's there's a bunch of ad blocking companies. I can't remember which one this is from, but but one of them ran a fundraising campaign recently, which is, which is what has gotten this on my mind for the past couple months. And I've been meaning to write an article about this, but I don't think ever will. So let's just talk about it now. And I, I have very, very deep misgivings about a company that exists to create ad blocking software.

Brady 1:09:48 How do you mean that

Grey 1:09:49 I almost feel that the world I would want to live in is one where ad blocking software is not available to the general public. But if you are able to write your own you You can run it on your own machine.

Brady 1:10:02 So the existing ad blocking software like the one you've got, who made that?

Grey 1:10:07 So it's this it's this company that ran this this fundraiser. Oh, you think it's just that company? No. Oh, God, no, I would never give them any money. Okay, so this is this is the one I'm running is adblock. It's just called adblock, I guess. Yeah. So many variations of it. I'm not even sure if that's the full name. But they have they have this little promo video that I recently watched. And it just drives me crazy because it starts off there. They're doing a fundraiser and they say, there's two lines in their right, which is like, I love an internet without advertisements. And they're trying to promote. They're trying to promote this to people. So they've made an ad. Yeah, they've made an ad about their own ad blocking software. And I guess it's like the institutional existence of this ad blocking software. I don't, I don't like because This, when you talk about the the police that is making the ad blocking software, I think you can very clearly pointed them and say like you are making the internet worse in a way that you can't assign the blame to the individual users, because each individual user has a negligible impact. But the ad blocking software company themselves, they're the ones that allows this aggregate genuine impact to occur. And so I feel like you can assign blame towards them. And they're

Brady 1:11:35 blaming a gun manufacturer for the bad days.

Grey 1:11:39 Right? This is, this is exactly like it's so conflicting. I don't know if that is is an appropriate or an inappropriate analogy. It might be a very good one. It might be a very bad one. I can't decide. I can't figure out where I stand on this. And I find it very frustrating

Brady 1:11:54 thing I understand. Sorry, if I yeah, maybe I've kind of missed miss something here. This company who's been making ad blocking software before this company, like was before that was just like a little cottage industry, or is it always been made by institutional, you know, by organizations?

Grey 1:12:12 I'm pretty sure this one started as an individual guy. And now they have a couple of employees. So it used to be like a little and underground thing and now it's become like a Yeah, I guess I have to be honest, I don't I don't know fully the background and I said, there's there's so many of these places as well. So I'm not exactly sure what the situation is. But so one of the things that that the adblock says in their video is helped make the internet a better place. And I think like, adblock does the exact opposite.

Brady 1:12:46 They might as well say help make the internet a better place by putting cgp create a business.

Grey 1:12:51 Yeah, right like that is like help make the internet a better place. And they keep talking about these ads, as though there's some kind of natural barrier, like, Oh, we would have this really clean path, but there's all these boulders that nature left in the way right and help us clear these boulders, you know, and we're going to make this road a better place. Right? And like the actual situation is somebody built a toll road. And they're saying help us tear down this toll booth to make the world a better place. And it's like, well, the toll booth is the thing that pays for the upkeep of that road. Yeah, so it is it is not a fair comparison. So I don't know like I said, I I feel so uncomfortable even even talking about the existence of ad blocking software. I don't I don't want to be a hypocrite about this. But it's it's it's just so it's it's a tricky, contentious issue. I just feel like the I don't want the company that allows me to do this thing to exist. That is the situation that I would like in the world, which is kind of crazy. But I'm I'm you know, yeah, it's it's just a very complicated situation.

Brady 1:14:08 Well, I'm happy to say I don't run ad blocking software. But that's mainly because I probably couldn't get it to work. I can't even get my email to work.

Grey 1:14:19 The city of South Paulo a few years ago actually banned advertising and all public places in the city. So people had to take down public billboards that faced these public streets, I think is the way it worked. And there's some interesting pictures. If you go on Flickr, you can find photos of South Paulo, where there are no advertisements, but there are still the blank billboards up in various places. And that's a case where I also think, boy, if I was the Mayor of the City of London, I would totally do that. Without without any hesitation, I would pass that law. Well, because I think that that is that's a situation where clearly not having advertising is sort of, it's a nicer experience or like you're saying with the the Japanese going to the music festival before, it's a nicer experience to go through a place that does not have advertising. And unlike much of the internet, the city will still exist without billboards. If someone took down all the billboards in London tomorrow, those buildings wouldn't go away. Right there. They're not dependent on the advertising revenue from the billboards to exist.

Brady 1:15:33 You know what with the businesses that populate and start having problems and start start going out of business and it starts this slippery slope of decline. I mean, just like me fast forwarding through the TV, are you being a you being simplistic about it? Is that more important to the economy than you're realizing? I mean, maybe I would, do you mean just like a big billboard for like McDonald's or something and it's not not like, you know, Not like, you know, Bill, the jeweler saying Come and buy my rings because they're 30% off. You're talking about like, Coca Cola putting some big billboard up on.

Grey 1:16:09 Yeah, that's the kind of thing that sau Paulo was talking about. They didn't take down like business signs, okay, you know, like in the business window or that kind of stuff. They were just taking down giant public billboards, which I would suspect is would be a fairly negligible impact.

Brady 1:16:24 Would you be happy for the City of London to do that and pay double council rates?

Grey 1:16:30 I would be pretty surprised if it had to double the council rates. I was.

Brady 1:16:36 I was saying it's all part of an economy.

Grey 1:16:38 It is all part of an economy. Would I pay double? I don't know. I often wonder about that. I actually I kind of think about this sometimes on the underground because there's there's tons of advertising on the underground course. Yeah. And I have actually wondered a couple of times what increase in underground ticket what I'd be willing to pay to not have any of this ever vertising here. Yeah, because I've seen God, I'm going to say the Moscow subway, but this might be totally wrong. Sorry, internet. I'm looking it up right now. But I have seen beautiful photos of some subways where their interiors do not have any advertisement. And it's just, it's like some big art project or It looks like a beautiful Hall. And I think that that is a genuinely nicer experience for people on public transport, to to be able to take out the advertising. But my understanding, I tried to look into this one. So a while ago, my understanding is that the advertising on the London Underground is a very substantial decrease in the cost of the actual ticket, that advertising money is no joke for London. So you know, it might, you know, whatever their actual number is, if it's like double the price, like Oh, god, that's, you know, I'm not sure I would be willing to pay that and I know that lots of people who just couldn't pay that, you know, if you double their transportation costs, it's not practically say that

Brady 1:17:57 but I say that, you know, Niki Lauda organizations on a flight with petrol they say all the petrol so expensive because so much of its tax or it's the price of oil and then there's other things come down and the petrol price doesn't change.

Grey 1:18:12 Yeah, that's Yeah. Anyway. Well, the petrol thing the petrol thing is tricky. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. The only other thing that that might be worth just mentioning, that I sort of alluded to in the beginning, you know, we've talked about this being a, you know, a 10 episode experiment. Yeah, from you know, straight from the beginning and see if we can even get to 10 episodes. And there are there are many things that affect whether or not this is going to be a successful experiment. One of them is how many people listen. Another one is how much of an impact this has on your work schedule and my work schedule. But it is undeniable that a big portion of this is also the effectiveness of the advertising on the podcasts. So, this very thing that we are doing is is another example of how advertising can bring into existence some things that otherwise would not have happened. And it is, is only because I was you know, I was thinking about doing a podcast and trying to look into some numbers about how it might be financially sustainable and there is already a pre existing world of podcast advertising and so that's like this podcast I don't know if we would have ever started it. If if the if the world of podcast advertising did not exist if I if I couldn't see a way that maybe if we're going to be doing this as a joint project that's taking a both of our times for you know, that we could be spending other things like it also has to it has to be a financially viable product.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:47 I'll tell you what, what

Brady 1:19:49 whoever's whoever's getting these ads done is getting whatever they're paying, they get a bargain. To upgrade because your syrupy voice you could eat my Thank you, you could sell us to the

Grey 1:20:01 Baby, maybe not. But I know

Brady 1:20:06 how do you find doing the ads? Because, I mean, you've been talking a lot about advertising and you know, I've known you for a while now and I know you're very sensitive about advertising and your audience is so important to you. And you know now reading ads, which is a new experience for you, I know you don't just read them and you you put a lot of flair to them, but how are you finding doing ads?

Grey 1:20:27 Yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess maybe that's part of why this has also been on my mind You know, it's it's been an interesting experience because in on YouTube, I feel very disconnected from the ads the play before the videos. Yeah. And I don't have anything to do with them. They they come through this gigantic auction auction system is the way it works on YouTube. And so I feel just totally removed from them. And on my videos, I know I'm very sensitive and have, you know, turned down offers so far too. Speak and add at the end of the video because I feel like Well, I don't think I don't like this or I haven't quite figured out the way that I want to do it, if I were ever to, but it's never come up with something that I would like to do in the videos yet. But on the podcast, yeah, it just it seems very natural to do it. And maybe that's again, just because going back to not not being able to have a consistent opinion, while I feel very strongly about not speaking in the videos and advertisement in the podcasts, it just seems totally natural. And maybe that's because I listened to a lot of podcasts. And so I'm very used to this format of the host reading out and advertisement. That it AJ Yeah, it just it seems very natural. And, you know, so far been, we've been lucky to have products that I actually use and like and can feel good. recommending. So that that has been very helpful, but it is it has been less weird than I thought

Brady 1:21:50 it might be. is what I would say it's a crazy thing. I'm really I really love sport. And obviously I watch a lot of sport. I'm missing a big football game to be doing this podcast. By the way, Oh, thank you. And I do I do still find it crazy because I watch a lot of baseball, how an American commentary they do these these ad reads, that does still seem, I still haven't gotten used to even after all this time, where some guy will be talking about the pitching matchup. And then suddenly, it'll be he'll be telling you how great you know, some hotdog brand is or how great some car is like, I

Grey 1:22:22 mean, the the sports announcer does

Brady 1:22:24 it. Yeah, like the commentator like to say how wonderful something is, and then you'll get back on. And I still find that weird in sports commentary, but that's because they don't do it in other countries. They don't do it in the UK in that one. But you're in podcasts. I mean, I've been listening to a lot as well notice, you know, it just seems like a thing they do, you know?

Grey 1:22:42 Yeah, it seems very natural. And, you know, again, with conflicts over advertising, I have genuinely benefited from signing up to a bunch of the services that I have heard on podcasts. Yeah, you know, so, what, while we're recording this today, I have, I have no idea who the advertiser is going to be. So I'm going to be recording that. In the future, so what I'm about to say is not an advertisement. It's just it's just me saying it. But like, I found out about Squarespace from listening to podcast ads on the five by five network, which was home to a bunch of the shows that I listened to. And like that, that was great. Like that is an example of where my life is genuinely easier and better from advertising. And so like, you can't just say like, oh, it is always an interruption, because I don't know how else I would have found out about something like that. Like I'm not I'm not deeply involved in the website, building world, you know, that's like, that's tangential to what I'm actually trying to do. And so I'm not sure something like that would have ever come to me through just word of mouth. It can it can be beneficial. I mean, granted, the the number of products that are like that in my life is very small when compared to the total number of advertisements I have ever heard. Right, which is like functionally infinite, but still That is still been the case for me.

Brady 1:24:02 Yeah, I think that's Yeah, that's a forgotten thing or bad, isn't it? Sometimes they actually are performing a service. They have a utility as well. Yeah, they do. Yeah. Cool. Awesome. You know, I think there's a lot more to say about advertising and like, we've come at it from this angle of, of ad blocking and, and you know, but there are other aspects to advertising to do with being a YouTuber that we haven't even talked about. So I suspect maybe, maybe, yeah, talking about this again, sometime.

Grey 1:24:32 It might come up, maybe maybe in the follow up. I don't know. I feel exhausted. And I feel I feel weird even just talking about this topic. But yeah, I figure we will cut it there. Because we've been talking for a while. Yeah. And you need you need to pack Yeah, that's right.

Brady 1:24:48 Okay. I've got a pack. I'll probably make a number for video. Yes. Email me that checklist.

Grey 1:24:54 Yes, I will email you the checklist. So that you can probably just mostly ignore it tomorrow. As you run around. in a frenzy of last minute packing

Brady 1:25:01 would not forget my headphones.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Episode List[edit | edit source]

References[edit | edit source]

  1. "H.I. #5: Freebooting". Hello Internet. Hello Internet. Retrieved 27 September 2017.