H.I. No. 8: First World YouTuber Problems: Difference between revisions

'''Grey:''' I discovered that at this time of night my office turns into a yoga studio.

[HI theme plays]

'''Brady:''' Before we start follow-up,-

'''Grey:''' Yeah.

'''Brady:''' -can I ask you a question about follow-up?

'''Grey:''' [chuckles] Yeah.

'''Brady:''' There's been some, you know, feedback and comments going around that, you know, we always start the podcast with this sort of follow-up and correcting mistakes and re-discussing things from the episode before,-

'''Grey:''' Mm-hmm.

'''Brady:''' -and some people like that, but other people have suggested that it's not the way to start the podcast.

'''Grey:''' Mm-hmm.

'''Brady:''' You do believe it is, you know, and you're kind of the boss in a lot of ways. Why do you think this is-

'''Grey:''' Am I the boss?

'''Brady:''' Well, I don't know...

'''Grey:''' [chuckles]

'''Brady:''' I like- I like you to think- I don't want you to think you're the boss.

'''Grey:''' Okay. [chuckles]

'''Brady:''' Why is this the best way to start the podcasts? Do- you know- do you feel strongly about this?

'''Grey:''' I do, I do- I do feel strongly about follow-up first, because if someone is listening to the podcasts in chronological order, it makes sense to do follow-up as the first section, because if they're listening to a bunch of episodes in a row, when they finish episode three, the start of episode four follows very naturally from what we were talking about in the previous one.

'''Brady:''' Hmm.

'''Grey:''' So follow-up is- is obviously the next section and, uh, when we- when we started when I was thinking about doing a podcast, I did think, "ooh, maybe,- maybe we'll- we'll record the follow-up first, because that's the thing that makes most sense to talk about kind of chronologically,-"

'''Brady:''' Yeah.

'''Grey:''' "-and then just edit it so it's at the end, and then the main topic is in the beginning", but I don't- I don't think that works, because in all of our podcasts, when we do the main topic we almost always reference something that was in the follow-up in the beginning, so I don't think you can say, rearrange the conversation in post.

'''Brady:''' Yeah.

'''Grey:''' I think follow-up has to be first because like any conversation you're going to refer back to it later on, which is exactly what we do.

'''Brady:''' I agree, I- I wasn't sure at the start, but I've been- I've become a real convert to it. I think- I think there's a real culture in sort of media and broadcasting and anything to sort of, you know, put your- put your strong stuff at the start and, you know, don't bury the lead and, pull people in from the start and have a hook,-

'''Grey:''' Mm-hmm.

'''Brady:''' I think pod- podcasts are a different creature in that way, they are just like a- like a chat, and I think it's okay, like most chats just start off meandering before they settle on a focus and...

'''Grey:''' Yeah. And I- I- I- you know- if people enjoy the podcast, which I- which I hope they do, if they're still listening at this point, what are we, eight episodes in? I think this is number eight.

'''Brady:''' It is, it is.

'''Grey:''' Uh, presumably they're listening because they still like it, and, I know at least for the podcasts that I listen to, it- it's very much- to me it feels like I get to sit in on a conversation, uh, with people who I would not normally get to sit in on a conversation with. I- I like that feeling, and conversations- they have a particular flow, right? When you- when you sit down with your friends, you catch up on- on what's happened since the last time you sat down together, you don't sit down at a table and think "Right, what's my strongest opening story to tell my friends when I sit down. We're gonna lead with a bang, and then later on we'll wrap up with the weather, but right now we gotta lead with the main story." So that's just-

'''Brady:''' Yeah,

'''Grey:''' -that's not how friends talk to each other, and you and I are friends and we're- we're sitting down, so I think it's very natural for follow-up to come first.

'''Brady:''' All right. Let's do follow-up!

'''Grey:''' [chuckling] Okay.

'''Brady:''' What do you got from last time?

'''Grey:''' Ah, so I just had to, uh, make a- make a- a reference, for people who have not been on the Reddit, you really should go, it's great there's a lot of very good conversation on the Reddit, but unbelievably, last time when we put our podcast up, we made reference in the middle of that podcast to possibly somebody about to get on an airplane, you know, who may have just downloaded that and you were talking about plane crashes, and-

'''Brady:''' Yes, my- my obsession with them.

'''Grey:''' Yes, and I could not believe it, but when I put it up, the very first comment on the Reddit mere minutes after uploading, someone said, and I- I took a little screenshot here, this guy Thomas said "Yay, excellent timing I'm just about to board a plane, and was regretting that the book-" uh, "was regretting the book I brought with me. Now I have two hours of the podcast to listen to." And then it finished with "You guys are too good to me.", right? Which-

'''Brady:''' [chuckles]

'''Grey:''' -which was just like the- like a very, very nice comment, but knowing that he was about to go into an episode where we discussed plane crashes for a not trivial amount of time, I just couldn't believe the coincidence that happened there, that the very first comment was exactly the thing that we were- we were suggesting might occur. So anyway,-

'''Brady:''' The best thing about that was, like, in the podcast you made that joke, too, about someone on a plane listening to it, and then you like spoke directly to them for a joke and you said "I hope you're enjoying this, Tim",-

'''Grey:''' Right.

'''Brady:''' -and that guy's name was Tom.

'''Grey:''' Right, so close!

'''Brady:''' It was so close to being- Wow.

'''Grey:''' Yeah it would- it would have been, uh, it would have been just perfect. Um, but anyway, so, there's fun- fun things that happen on- on the Reddit, and again I just want to say, I think it's- it's a- it's a really great community and- and we were discussing before recording now that there's a lot of activity there and- and it's great and I really do look over the discussion, so uh, anytime you want to talk about whatever we discuss on the podcast, uh, the Reddit is a great place to go and there will be a link in the shownotes to whatever- whatever the link is for this episode, so I'll put that there.

'''Brady:''' did we hear back from Tom after his flood

'''Grey:''' yeah he was he was actually okay we did not cause him a lot of anxiety but when he landed on the other end he said that he enjoyed it and so I'm glad that we did not give him a panic attack on the fly or you did not give him a panic attack on the flight really I would say that's mostly your fault

'''Brady:''' do you know what's amazing gray what like we're talking about we're talking like you know a week later however long it's been and we're not really much closer to knowing what happened to that Malaysia Airlines plane

'''Grey:''' oh yeah so you have to you have to follow these things for me so

'''Brady:''' you must know what's going on though you do you're not that you're not that oblivious to the news eh uh

'''Grey:''' well this might actually reasonably we talk about later but no last last headline I saw was something about a presumably a hijacking is that the current state of

'''Brady:''' no we know we're nowhere near that I don't see I don't I don't I didn't think it was a hijacking that the latest is they they seem to be having all this satellite imagery of possible debris you know thousands of kilometers off the coast of Perth in Australia quite quite some distance from where that plane was supposed to be going and so basically it's done a hard left and then just if this is if it's there it's done a hard left and just flown and flown and flown and then maybe ran out of fuel maybe being crashed into the ocean like in like the most remote pretty much the most remote place this could happen huh so something's going on man well it's crazy well maybe next maybe next week we'll know more but this is going to be a this is I keep thinking it's going to be something simple and maybe it's still will but this is looking stranger and stranger

'''Grey:''' yeah I have a feeling like I would I would not want it to be but I feel like you could make this a regular segment every week talk about some plane crash with some interesting story from a plane crash I feel that the the depth of your love for this topic is quite deep

'''Brady:''' at least we're not talking about freebooting anywhere

'''Grey:''' yes that's true we're not talking about freebooting anymore although I do have a follow-up item about it but probably not today I'll say before another time

'''Brady:''' okay I tell you what what you stood up a right hornet's nest in the last episode with this language education

'''Grey:''' yes yes I do know

'''Brady:''' we knew it you knew it was going to happen too didn't you

'''Grey:''' I did know that it was going to happen I did know it was going to happen and in in addition to reading all of the reddit comments Derek a veritasium is here in London and he has taken some time out to see me, and I saw Derek earlier today and the day before and I can say that he probably spent at least eight hours of human efforts one-on-one trying to convince me otherwise from my opinions about dropping language classes from the curriculum and

'''Brady:''' you got off lightly you got off lightly right where Derek decides he's right about something a oh is this nothing

'''Grey:''' well I think it's only because he had to fit me in between other appointments of things that he's doing while he's over here otherwise you know I left I left - Derek just just a couple hours ago at the pub I think he would still be sitting there now with me trying to convince Mia if if he hadn't had to go somewhere and we had to record this podcast so he's he was very intense about it and

'''Brady:''' he's and he's and obviously if his opinion is different to yours he's a big advocate of extensive language teaching in schools can you sort of summarize his position for us

'''Grey:''' right the answer is I cannot summarize his position for us uh and I kept I kept mentioning this to him in the bar because he had he had actually a letter to me he had written this whole thing on his iPhone that there was like this is like bullet pointed argument about all the ways in which I was wrong and and all the ways in which I should I should reconsider my positions and to to be fair to Derek I I cannot I think possibly try to summarize his arguments without getting it just just wrong or making him more infuriated because with eight hours there's a lot of nuance that you can go into we can suffice it to say that I was not I was not moved by Derek I have not changed my opinion

'''Brady:''' in any way there was nothing he said that made a dent anywhere no chink in your armor

'''Grey:''' well is that it's not it's not shrinking my armor but there are a few there are a few interesting interesting kind of things to bring up about that I'm not summarizing Derek's argument what I'm about to say but I'm going to say a similar thing that came up on the reddit and in some of the feedback that I got was comments about the benefits of learning languages cognitive benefits that are not necessarily the language themself but things that you get from learning a second language. And I always want to be clear I don't doubt that there are benefits to learning another language

'''Brady:''' yeah

'''Grey:''' but my my point was that I don't think the school system as it currently exists actually produces people who are able to speak another language so you can talk to me as much as you want about the benefits of learning other languages and I am all on board with that but the the current school system just it doesn't do that so it's sort of it's sort of irrelevant how awesome it is to speak a second language when we're not coming out with kids who actually do speak other languages so I would say that that was part of the part of the feedback that I got.

'''Brady:''' yeah but but like you teach people sport and physical education and they don't come out as athletes at the end but the process of playing the game taught them thick not only to have a health benefit a taught them about teamwork at taught them things it improved their coordination it did lots of other things even though they come out as a major league baseball or at the end

'''Grey:''' yes

'''Brady:''' I know you realize this but you seem to say I realize this and then completely ignore it I guess I guess I just my my thought on this is that the the things that I have seen about the benefits of learning of the language are presupposing basic competence in that language, right? when a person has basic competence in the language here are the benefits that they also have and so my my position is just that I don't think most language courses have their students reach basic conversational competence to- to get those benefits it's like- it's like a threshold effect anyway I just I did want to mention that but I also just again want to be clear because Derrick will be really angry otherwise and that was that was not the sole of his arguments and he also had a very different language experience than I did it sounded like he actually had quite a successful schooling experience in general which included which by the way language teachers I think is a good idea starting teaching French I forget when he said but in in primary school he was very young when they started doing French which I think if you're going if you're going to teach language you might as well start when kids are very young right if we're going to do this let's do it right and and start from the very beginning but yeah so he had he had a very different experience with me and I am slightly exhausted but unmov'd from

'''Brady:''' you realize like you realize I've got Derrick Nick's he's coming to me for three days now we're like hanging out for ages am I am I just gonna be bombarded with language stuff or

'''Grey:''' you may be you may be I do have I do have a personal a piece of advice for you and anyone else who sees Derrick in the next couple of days I have a major regret which is that when I met Derrick we met in the Natural History Museum here in London I I gave Derrick a hug to say hello right like

'''Brady:''' yeah

'''Grey:''' you know haven't seen you in a while hug and I really shouldn't have because Derrick was was sick but I thought let me let me express my great friendship to Derrick nice big hello hug and now I'm feeling terrible I am feeling very sick Derrick gave me a disease from physical proximity I'm absolutely sure

'''Brady:''' oh no

'''Grey:''' he is now on his way to you acting as a typhoid mary of sorts I assume so you and the missus may be shortly experiencing symptoms of not feeling very well so I do also apologize to listeners that my voice doesn't sound absolutely perfect or if you hear me if you hear the sound of like crinkly unwrapping like I'm doing now I have halls and a whole bunch of other medicines that I'm shoving in to my face right now to try to sound a bit more normal so I'm sorry these sounds are terrible but you're gonna have to listen to them for the moment

'''Brady:''' we're going we're sharing a hot tub with Derek so worried for a world we're going to let the like force pie the hot sparrin in Bath

'''Grey:''' that's no good you are definitely disease vector Derek that's what's gonna happen to you sorry

'''Brady:''' can I share an email with you I got

'''Grey:''' oh yeah

'''Brady:''' this is about language it's actually funny there's a bit of a trend I've noticed since we've started the podcast particularly the one we did about email

'''Brady:''' yes but it's really funny because I'm getting like short emails like you recommended but because because I think we've made our positions clear that you are pretty ruthless with email in terms of not reading it and deleting it and I was a bit more of a softy and I say that I sometimes read emails in case there's and gem in there I'm getting all these emails that are kind of almost directed at you