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Brady: --that's- that's- that's attention to detail, you know,--
 
Grey: It is, it is, that--
Unknown Speaker 1:10:24
it is anyway, that's why he's a successful guy. Exactly.
 
Brady: Anyway,--
Grey 1:10:30
Yeah, what it was, is that he he made a comment. We were talking once about how the value of positive feedback goes to zero. As you are more and more successful. Yeah. And I don't know if you think that's the case, but he said that and it was like, man, I could not agree with him more strongly when he mentioned that to me.
 
Grey: That's why he's a successful guy.
Brady 1:10:50
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't mean I want no one you know, everyone to stop leaving positive feedback. But I mean, yeah, I mean, you look at you kind of preaching to the choir, right. You After a while in terms of, you know, people watching or watching because they like what you're doing.
 
Brady: Exactly.
Grey 1:11:06
Yeah. And it's it's a, it's very interesting it just just as a little bit of a phenomenon that you have, if you get lots and lots and lots of positive comments, it sounds it does sound weird, but after a while, if you if you have tons of them, they're not necessarily valuable, right? these are these are, like in aggregate, right? individually they are but like, what can you draw from that? It's very hard to say like, there's not necessarily anything actionable in that, right? Whereas negative comments may still contain information for something that you can change or that you can improve upon. And also, the thing is that, you know, negative comments are the ones that just really stick with you sometimes, you know, especially if there is a kernel of truth, a kernel of truth to them.
 
Grey: Um, um,--
Brady 1:11:56
course that's that's the that's the thing, isn't it?
 
Brady: What was he saying to you?
Grey 1:11:59
Yeah. There was, uh, I'll see if I can find it for the description. But there was a little web comic that I saw once where it showed like a guy at work. And he's surrounded by all these little speech bubbles of people saying really nice things about him. There's 20 nice things, and there's one negative thing. And then the second panel is him after work at dinnertime. And the one negative comment is still crystal clear, but all the positive ones have sort of faded away of slightly. And then the final panel is him, you know, it's at nighttime and you can't get to sleep. And the only thing that remains is that negative comments, and all the positive ones have sort of disappeared. And I think that that's partly like what is it was engaged in a statement like positive feedback turns to zero. That like the negative stuff really sticks with you, especially if it if it has some kernel of truth. And you know, that that can be it can be very, very hard to deal with. Sometimes
 
Grey: Yeah, what I was going to say- he- he made a comment, um, when we were talking once about how, um, the value of positive feedback goes to zero as you are more and more successful.
Brady 1:12:49
Have you ever had like a negative comment that still sticks with you now?
 
Brady: Yeah.
Grey 1:12:55
People Yeah, I mean, people can people can leave comments that really do kind of stick with you.
 
Grey: And, I don't know if you think that's the case, but he said that and it was like, "Man, I could not agree with him more strongly", uh, when he mentioned that to me.
Brady 1:13:03
But what what would I want to ask you to personally question I also don't want to encourage people to go and give you a hard time. But yeah, what sort of area of criticism will stick with you more than others? Will it be, you know, I don't like the sound of your voice or your argument is poor or you sound like you must be very ugly. But what are the ones that stick with you?
 
Brady: Yeah.
Grey 1:13:29
I think I think there's a kind of common that I do see on on videos, especially when I'm aware like if it's on a section on Reddit, for example, where people don't know who I am that I would say the one that I'm okay talking about that I see the most is people will say that I sound really condescending in the videos. And that that always gets me because like, why am I like, my whole point is to not be condescending, like I'm I'm sort of assuming that the person watching this video might not know very much about this topic. And I want to, I want to try to be friendly about that. And that is something that I do think about when I'm recording the actual audio for the video is to try to get takes where I'm not. I'm not like being an authority talking down to person. Especially because very often, like, I knew almost nothing about this topic five weeks earlier. And so like I'm by no means an authority. And I've just done a whole bunch of research, but I'm very sensitive to coming off as condescending to people who might not have watched a whole bunch of my videos. So that's a kind of negative comment that I do see repeatedly that I'm aware of and kind of sticks with me
 
Grey: Um,--
Brady 1:14:47
and does affect how I how I work a little bit. I mean, you're always going to have that problem because if you tell people a lot of clever information that they didn't know before Very, very quickly, which is what you do. It makes you appear very intelligent and knowledgeable. And that immediately puts you in a position where you where people will feel that you're being condescending, you're not. And I know you get around it in all those other ways, but you're always gonna, you're always going to struggle with that. Yeah, it's like, like, if someone goes on a quiz show and they happen to know all the answers, like, Well, okay, they know all the answers and people gonna think oh, aren't they know and feel really negatively towards them? I mean, yeah, sorry. I just happen to know the answers. And I've set them quickly.
 
Brady: I mean, it doesn't mean I want no one- you know, everyone to stop leaving positive feedback. But, um, I mean, yeah, I mean, you look at- you're kind of preaching to the choir, aren't you, after a while in terms of, um, you know, people watching or watching because they like what you're doing.
Grey 1:15:35
Yeah. But But I, but that's, I totally agree with that. But it is something that I'm very sensitive towards about. Yeah, thinking of ways to minimize that in the videos in various ways. Yeah. But what I was gonna say is just like I have a couple of other little, little thoughts here and there's Gina who's a Frank is
 
Grey: Yeah. And it- it's- it's, uh, it's very interesting- and just a- just as a little bit of a- a phenomenon that- you have- if you get just like lots and lots and lots of positive comments, it- it sounds- it does sound weird, but after a while, if you- if you have tons of them, they're not necessarily valuable, right? These are- these are- like in aggregate, right? Individually they are, but like, "what can you draw from that?", is very hard to say, like, there's not necessarily anything actionable in that, right? Whereas negative comments may still contain information for something that you can change or that you can improve upon. Um, and also, [laughs] the other thing is that, you know, negative comments are the ones that just really stick with you sometimes, you know, especially if there is a- a- a kernel of truth, uh, a kernel of truth to them. Um,--
Brady 1:15:59
Yeah, I met I met today Frank VidCon. Oh, did you
 
Brady: Of course, that's- that's the- that's the thing, isn't it?
Grey 1:16:05
say Frank for those who may not be aware is sort of the, the father of the modern internet vlog. You know the Have you seen a video where there's a person's face talking at a camera very quickly and they do jump cuts. Like say Frank was the guy who started that back in the day. He's the green brother.
 
Grey: Yeah. And, there- there was a- there was a- I'll see if I can find it for the description, but there was a little web comic that I saw once where it showed, like, a- a guy at work, and he's surrounded by all these little speech bubbles of people saying really nice things about him, there's 20 nice things, and there's one negative thing. And then the second panel is him after work at dinnertime, and the one negative comment is still crystal clear, but all the positive ones have sort of faded away, uh, slightly.
Brady 1:16:23
He's a real hero of the green brothers.
 
Brady: Yeah.
Grey 1:16:24
Yeah, yeah, he used to do this amazing thing called the show, which is so old now in internet terms, but it was just amazing. And then he disappeared mysteriously for a number of years and has recently come back on YouTube. But he did a video which I'll try to find for the description where he was talking about comments on videos on YouTube. And he made an excellent point, which I thought was it was interesting, which is that of course the only people who comment are the people who have a strong reaction to the video or whatever it is you've made in one way or another, right people who really liked it, or really hated it. But pretty much by definition, the people who watch the video and we're kind of met, they're probably not going to leave a comment. Yeah. And so I had, I had not really thought about that. But it's an interesting point that feedback on anything that you put on the internet is, is going to be intrinsically biased in two completely opposing directions. Yeah, you know, people who love it and people who hate it. And I think this is you can also see this just in in any kind of website that has five star rankings where almost all the reviews are either five stars or their one star. And there's almost no three star review. Yeah. Because who is the person leaving the three star review? Yeah, and I, like, kind of liked it.
 
Grey: And then the final panel is him, you know, it's- it's at nighttime and he can't get to sleep, and the only thing that remains is that negative comment, and all the- the positive ones have sort of disappeared.
Brady 1:17:58
change your life for the better Yeah, broke the day you got it. You wanna?
 
Brady: Yeah.
Grey 1:18:02
That's exactly it. It's like, Oh, I kind of liked it. But I think I'll spend 20 minutes writing a review this thing that's kind of like whatever, like nobody does that does that nobody?
 
Grey: Uh, and I think that- that's partly like what is in- what is engaged in a statement like "positive feedback trends to zero", um, that like, the negative stuff really sticks with you especially if it- if it has some kernel of truth, um, and, you know, that can be- that can be very- very hard to deal with, um, sometimes.
Brady 1:18:12
So I think that's just interesting to keep in mind whenever you're looking over feedback of anything that you I mean, that's interesting you bring that up. I mean, I guess there is there is one respect where I, I have to, I hadn't thought of this before, actually. But there is a respect in which I have to follow feedback or interestingly, and you analyze it more than you. And that is the respect in which most of my videos have a third party in them. Who is often someone maybe not used to the kind of exposure you get on these YouTube videos. Yes. And of course, they read the feedback. And I I then have to counsel them in some way. Yes. So that that whole thing about, you know, you're the silent majority It is something I'm always forced to bring up with people when they've read two or three of those comments that are very harsh and will stay in that speech bubble for days. I have to tell them, you know, a million people have watched this video. You know, some of them didn't like it. But yeah, that's that's like 20 people out of a million. And there's a whole bunch that did like it and so but in general, that's, that is the biggest problem of comments for me is that is those third parties who are often who are always almost volunteers. And not the sort of people that put themselves out there for criticism. They're doing me a favor. They're doing the viewers a favor, by lending their expertise and, and knowledge. And suddenly they're exposed to this this harsh world. And you know, I can accept, I can accept that myself. If someone wants to say that I'm a terrible filmmaker or a bad person or have a big nose. So I'm rubbish. I have to accept that I know I've chosen. I've chosen this world, but these other people, I don't think they've chosen it to the same degree. And I feel quite protective of them. Yeah. And it's, it has just very recently reached a tipping point for me, where I'm no, I'm no longer willing to accept it. And particularly with the new comment system and a few other things that have been going on, like it's just become
 
Brady: Have you ever had, like, a negative comment that still sticks with you now?
this become very vicious towards these volunteers. And, you know, so, you know, I can accept if someone says, I disagree with your argument, or I think you made a factual mistake or if they start saying things that are personally offensive or racist, or, you know, or sexual against these volunteers, and I can't police it, you know, I can't police it all because there are so many videos I've just had enough. And so just recently I've I'm experimenting with having the comments to approval, which is a huge rod for my back. I remember when I met with the guys that did the Sesame Street YouTube videos, they do the same thing. Because obviously, lots of kids are on those sites and I'm very aware that schools use my videos to the I don't want the top comment to be some racist attack against the person who's in the video. So I've been experimenting with approving them, and it takes me loads of time. And I'm not particularly sensors in terms of you know, if someone doesn't like the video, like, I'll just take I'll prove that. If they liked the video, I'll check it if they but if they being abusive, you know, I can't have it anymore. Because it also some of these people in the videos, you know, I'm reading it and they've become scared to read the comments. Yeah, because of you know, they're saying Now I won't even look at the comments now it's too hurtful. And I don't want that to happen. I want them to go into the comments so they can enjoy the praise, or they can look at the constructive criticism and think about it. And, you know, I've always really prided the comments section under my videos as a place where debate goes on, you know, it can be it can be vigorous debate, but, you know, a healthy place, and I like the people in the videos to go in there too. And at least read it. Some of them actually engage with it and write comments too, but at least read it and, and be part of it. So those people writing the comments don't feel like they're talking to the void. But it got to a point where that just wasn't feasible anymore. So I've had to, I've gone down this approval route as an experiment for now. And I've never been able to go to the people in my videos and say, Don't worry, don't worry, don't be scared of going into the comments anymore. If someone writes something that is hurt rific I'll try to you know, I'll try to stop. Yes. And if some and, you know, I know we live in a world where free speech is greatly valued, and I greatly value free speech as well, but they can go and do their free speech somewhere else free, not on a video and page that I've created, you know? Yeah. And I'm giving the administration rights that page for various reasons. And you know, if they want to, if they want to have their free speech and say something vicious and horrible about some poor academic who's volunteered their time, go and do it on your own page. Don't don't don't ride the audience that have come to see a video that we've created.
 
Grey: [sigh] People- yeah, I mean, people can- people can leave comments that really do, kind of, um, stick with you. But I--
 
Brady: What's your- what- what's your- what would- well, I don't want to ask you too personal a question, and I also don't want to [chuckles]--
 
Grey: [chuckles]
 
Brady: --encourage people to go and give you a hard time, but--
 
Grey: [laughing] Yeah.
 
Brady: What- what sort of area of criticism will stick with you more than others? Will it be, you know, "I don't like the sound of your voice" or "your argument is poor" or--
 
Grey: Um,--
 
Brady: --"you sound like you must be very ugly"?
 
Grey: [laughs]
 
Brady: Like, what- what- what are the ones that stick with you?
 
Grey: I think- I think, um, there's a kind of comment that I do see on- on videos, especially when I'm aware- like if it's on- on a section on Reddit, for example, where people don't know who I am,--
 
Brady: Mm-hmm.
 
Grey: --um, the- I would say the- the one that I'm okay talking about that I see the most, is people will say that I sound really condescending in the videos. And that- that always gets me because like, boy am I- like, my whole point is to not be condescending, like I'm- I'm- I'm sort of assuming that the- the person watching this video might not know very much about this topic, and I want to- I want to try to be friendly about that, and that is something that I do think about when I'm recording the actual audio for the video is- is to try to get takes where I'm not- I'm not like being an authority talking down to person, um, especially because very often, uh, like, uh, I knew almost nothing about this topic five weeks earlier. And- and so, like, I'm by no means an authority. Um, you know, I've just done a whole bunch of research, but I'm- I'm very sensitive to coming off as condescending to people who might not have watched a whole bunch of my videos. So that's a kind of negative comment that I do see repeatedly that I'm- I'm aware of and kind of sticks with me, um, and- and does affect how, uh, how I- how I work a little bit.
 
Brady: I mean, you're always going to have that problem though, because if you tell people a lot of inf- clever information that they didn't know before, very very quickly, which is what you do, it makes you appear very intelligent and knowledgeable, and that immediately puts you in a position where you- where people will feel that you're being condescending. You're not, and I know you get around it in all those other ways, but you're always gonna- you're always going to struggle with that.
 
Grey: Yeah, I am.
 
Brady: It's like- it's like- like, if someone goes on a quiz show and they happen to know all the answers, like, well, okay, they know all the answers and people gonna think "Oh, aren't they a know-it-all" and feel really negatively towards them. I mean,--
 
Grey: Yeah.
 
Brady: --"sorry, I just happen to know the answers, and I've said them quickly".
 
Grey: Yeah. Um, but- but I- yeah, I- but that's- I- I- I totally agree with that, but it is something that I'm just- I'm very--
 
Brady: Yeah, yeah.
 
Grey: --sensitive--
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: --towards about,--
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: --thinking of ways to minimize--
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: --that in the videos, um,--
 
Brady: Yeah, yeah.
 
Grey: --in- in various ways.
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: Um, but what I- what I was gonna say is just, uh, like, I have a couple other- other little- little thoughts here and, you know, there's- Do you know who's a Ze Frank is?
 
Brady: Yes, I- I met- I met Ze Frank at- at VidCon, uh, two years ago.
 
Grey: Oh did you? Ah... um, Ze Frank, for- for those who may not be aware, is sort of the- the father of the modern internet vlog. You know the- if you've seen a video where there's a person's face talking at a camera very quickly and they do jump cuts, like, Ze Frank was the guy who started that, um, back in the day, he's sort of- the--
 
Brady: Yeah, the- the Green brother- he's a real hero of the green brothers.
 
Grey: Yeah, yeah, he used to do this amazing thing called "The Show", which, is so old now in internet terms, but was just amazing. Um, and then he disappeared mysteriously for a number of years and has recently come back on YouTube. Um, but he did a- a- a video, which I'll- I'll try to find for the description, where he was talking about comments on videos on YouTube, and he made an excellent point, which I thought was in- was interesting, which is that, of course, the only people who comment are the people who have a strong reaction to the video, or whatever it is you've made, in one way or another, right? People who really liked it, or really hated it. But pretty much by definition, the people who watch a video and were kind of meh, they're probably not going to leave a comment.
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: Um, and so I- I had- I had not really thought about that, but it's an interesting point that feedback on anything that you put on the internet is- is going to be intrinsically biased in two completely opposing directions.
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: You know, people who love it and people who hate it. And I think this is- you can also see this just in- in any kind of- of website that has, uh, five star rankings, um, where almost all the reviews are either five stars or they're one star, and there's almost no three star reviews.
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: Because who is the person leaving the three star review? Um,--
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: and I- I- [laughs] right? Like, "Oh, I kind of liked it, eh, I don't know"--
 
Brady: Yeah, it- it either change your life for the better, or--
 
Grey: Yeah.
 
Brady: --broke the day you got it and you want to--
 
Grey: That's exactly it. It's like, "Oh, I kind of liked it. But I think I'll spend 20 minutes writing a review"--
 
Brady: [chuckles]
 
Grey: --"of this thing that's kind of, like, whatever", um, like, nobody does that, right? That's--
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: --that's nobody. Um, and so it just- I think that's just interesting to keep in mind whenever you're looking over feedback of anything that you have put out there on the internet.
 
Brady: I- uh, I mean, that's interesting you bring that up, I mean, I guess there is- there is one respect where I- I have to- and I hadn't thought of this before, actually, but there is a respect in which I have to follow feedback more interestingly,--
 
Grey: Yeah.
 
Brady: --and you analyze it more than you.
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: And that is the respect in which most of my videos have a third party in them, who is often someone... maybe not used to the kind of exposure you get on these YouTube videos.
 
Grey: Yes.
 
Brady: And of course, they read the feedback.
 
Grey: Yes.
 
Brady: And I- I then have to counsel them in some way.
 
Grey: Yes.
 
Brady: So that- that whole, um, thing about, you know, you- the silent majority, is something I'm always forced to bring up with people when they've read two or three of those--
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: --comments that are very harsh and will stay in that speech bubble for days,--
 
Grey: [chuckles]
 
Brady: --I have to tell them, you know, "a million people have watched this video", you know, "some of them didn't like it", but--
 
Grey: Yeah.
 
Brady: "that's- that's like 20 people out of a million, and there's a whole bunch that did like it" so, but in general, that's- that is the biggest problem of comments for me,--
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: --is that- is those third parties who are often--
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: --who are always, almost, volunteers,--
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: --uh, and not the sort of people that put themselves out there for criticism. They're doing me a favor,--
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: --um, they're doing the viewers a favor by lending their expertise and- and knowledge. And suddenly they're exposed to this- this harsh world. And, you know, I can accept- I can accept that myself, if someone wants to say that I'm a terrible filmmaker or a bad person or have a big nose or am rubbish,--
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: --I- I have to accept that, uh, you know, I've chosen- I've chosen this world, but these other people, I don't think they've chosen it to the same degree, and I feel quite protective of them.
 
Grey: Yeah.
 
Brady: And it's- it has, just very recently, reached, uh, a tipping point for me, where, I'm no- I'm no longer willing to accept it.
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: And, particularly with the new comment system and a few other things that have been going on, like, it's just become... vi- it's become very vicious towards these volunteers, and, you know, so- you know, I can accept if someone says, "I disagree with your argument", or "I think you made a factual mistake" or,--
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: --but if they start saying things that are personally offensive, or racist, or, you know, or sexual, against these volunteers, and I can't police it, you know, I can't police it all because there are so many videos,--
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: --I've just had enough. And so just recently I've- I'm experimenting with having the comments to approval,--
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: --which is a huge rod for my own back. I remember, um, when I met with the guys that do the Sesame Street YouTube videos, they do the same thing. Because obviously, lots of--
 
Grey: Yeah.
 
 
 
[1:21:21]
 
 
 
Brady: --kids are on those sites and I'm very aware that schools use my videos to the I don't want the top comment to be some racist attack against the person who's in the video. So I've been experimenting with approving them, and it takes me loads of time. And I'm not particularly sensors in terms of you know, if someone doesn't like the video, like, I'll just take I'll prove that. If they liked the video, I'll check it if they but if they being abusive, you know, I can't have it anymore. Because it also some of these people in the videos, you know, I'm reading it and they've become scared to read the comments. Yeah, because of you know, they're saying Now I won't even look at the comments now it's too hurtful. And I don't want that to happen. I want them to go into the comments so they can enjoy the praise, or they can look at the constructive criticism and think about it. And, you know, I've always really prided the comments section under my videos as a place where debate goes on, you know, it can be it can be vigorous debate, but, you know, a healthy place, and I like the people in the videos to go in there too. And at least read it. Some of them actually engage with it and write comments too, but at least read it and, and be part of it. So those people writing the comments don't feel like they're talking to the void. But it got to a point where that just wasn't feasible anymore. So I've had to, I've gone down this approval route as an experiment for now. And I've never been able to go to the people in my videos and say, Don't worry, don't worry, don't be scared of going into the comments anymore. If someone writes something that is hurt rific I'll try to you know, I'll try to stop. Yes. And if some and, you know, I know we live in a world where free speech is greatly valued, and I greatly value free speech as well, but they can go and do their free speech somewhere else free, not on a video and page that I've created, you know? Yeah. And I'm giving the administration rights that page for various reasons. And you know, if they want to, if they want to have their free speech and say something vicious and horrible about some poor academic who's volunteered their time, go and do it on your own page. Don't don't don't ride the audience that have come to see a video that we've created.
 
Grey 1:23:40
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