Podpedia

H.I. No. 4: Feedback on Feedback: Difference between revisions

Page Discussion

H.I. No. 4: Feedback on Feedback (edit)

Revision as of 21:32, 10 July 2022

1,315 bytes added ,  1 year ago
→‎Other: Cleaned transcript up to 1:10:26
VisualWikitext
(→‎Other: Cleaned transcript up to 1:01:05)
(→‎Other: Cleaned transcript up to 1:10:26)
Line 1,575:
Brady: So what, you won't even look at it at all, like, just- you won't even look.
 
Grey: Yeah, I mean- I- I, uh, you know, we're- we're talking now in 2014 and a couple months ago, YouTube changed, uh, the- the way their comment system works,--
Grey 1:01:05
Yeah, I mean, I you know, we're talking now in 2014. And a couple months ago, YouTube changed the the way their comment system works. Yes, they did. And I was never a huge fan of the comment system before. And I wouldn't necessarily say that this this, this new system is worse. But for me for various reasons, I just find it not really workable. And so
 
Brady: Yes, 1:01:35 they did.
I would say it's worse but yeah,
 
Grey: --and I- I was never a- a huge fan of the comment system before, uh, and I'm- I wouldn't necessarily say that this- this, uh, this new system is worse, but for me for various reasons, I- I just find it not really workable, um, and so--
Grey 1:01:37
yeah, yeah, we will have a full conversation about this at some point. But But for now, I really I don't really look at the YouTube comments at all. And I look entirely at the Reddit comments and that's, that's what I'm interested in. And why
 
Brady: I 1:01:53would say it's worse, but--
why do you look at the comments what what do you what do you looking for in them?
 
Grey: Yeah. Yeah, again, we- uh, we'll- we'll have a fuller conversation about this at some point. Um,--
Grey 1:01:57
Well, what's what's interesting to me. So I have a again on Reddit, I have a section where I can post the videos and people can discuss them. But I'm very interested also on Reddit when the video gets posted in other sections, so people who don't necessarily subscribe to me on youtube who who've never seen one of my videos before, they will comment on a video. And that can be interesting to read and see like someone who's not familiar with my video style. Yeah, you know, what, what might they say? But what I was one of the reasons why I think the feedback on feedback thing is interesting because it it changes at different scales when someone's starting out when they're making things for the first time on the internet. Anonymous feedback from strangers is kind of an amazing thing. Now, you know, people can just be like total jerks on the internet. There's no denying that but It is. It's difficult in real life to ever get genuine, honest feedback from people you know, in your life. So you know, you have friends and you have families. And because you have social obligations to the people in those groups, it's hard to get 100% honest feedback from from those people in your life. Yeah. Whereas some random person who's seen whatever you've made on the internet, and who has no connection to you, and isn't even using a real name, there's no reason for them to hold back. You know, they, they have permission to just be really straightforward and their feedback and yeah, that can be very, very valuable. And I think if you're paying attention to that kind of feedback in the right sort of way, especially in the beginning, you can really try to to direct whatever it is you're making in a more positive way,
 
Brady 1:04:05 Yeah.
how much should you allow yourself to be guided by feedback? I mean, I, it's the politically correct thing to say is, I look at the feedback and my audience is really important. And I want to make what they want, and I will shape and tailor what I do to them. And, you know, I take all their opinions on board because they're really valuable to me. And to an extent, that is true, and only a full will completely ignore feedback on what the audience is saying, because we do this for the audience. You know, it's a relationship with the audience. But at the same time, you've got to kind of Believe in yourself as well and and your vision otherwise you just become some diluted, you know, designed by committee. Piece of generic Rubbish. Yeah. And and the example I often use in this respect is in the number five videos I make, which are these mathematics videos, often we need to write on something. And for various reasons, which I've outlined in the blog in great detail, and it was very much thought out, I have people write on these pieces of brown paper with a marker. Now, with the first three or four, number five videos went up, they they had a quite a large audience from the start, because I already had an audience from other channels. So I was getting a lot of feedback right from the start. And overwhelmingly, like you wouldn't believe all the feedback was negative about the brown paper. Really, you've got to get rid of it. It's rubbish. like and trust me that was what all the comments were about, and it was very strong, but I really believed in using this brown paper.
 
Grey: But- but for now, I- I really- I don't really look at the YouTube comments at all.
Grey 1:05:56
I guess it's such a trademark of yours now and not imagine the number five videos without Exactly.
 
Brady 1:06:00 Yeah.
And I felt really strongly about it for various reasons that it was a good idea and it would work. And there are still people that don't like it. But they're very much in the minority now, and I rarely hear anything about it. But there are lots of people who really, really love it. They're really into it. And they, they've really adopted it. And that was an example of something where if I was going to go with the feedback and be shaped by it, I would have ditched that brown paper very quickly. Definitely. But I was like,
 
Grey: And I look entirely at the Reddit comments, uh, and that's- that's what I'm interested in. Um, and--
Unknown Speaker 1:06:28
No, I think
 
Brady: Why? Why do you look at the comments? What are- what do you- what are you looking for in them?
Brady 1:06:30
I think I'm right here. And I think if you are starting out and you get shaped by feedback too easily, you lose your distinctiveness. And, you know, I think I think you've got it, you can look at it and take what you want from it. But you can't listen to it too much. You got to be your own man or woman.
 
Grey: Well, what- what's- what's interesting to me- so I have a- again on- on Reddit, I have a section where I can post the videos and people can discuss them. Um--
Grey 1:06:51
Yeah. And yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't be arguing for follow the feedback entirely. But I agree with you that you're kind of foolish to not pay attention to it, particularly in the beginning. But I think that brown paper one is a good example. Because there there are things that you have to consider as a creator, that might not be obvious to the people watching something. Yeah, and I don't know if this was your thought process, but I might guess that you wanted something that was distinct for a visual look, or you wanted something that you're dealing with an abstract channel so that people were writing on a thing, and you could see them doing it. I mean, was that some part of the that's it that that's, I mean, there are probably six or seven reasons, but that is a strong one. I want it to be sort of, yeah, something tactile and physical. Want topics that are here? Yeah. So they're nice. Yeah, there's definitely considerations that you have to have as the maker of the thing that are not obvious to the audience. But I think for, you know, for example, in some of my earlier views, videos there were a lot of comments about how the audio quality was just terrible and there is no denying that like that that was entirely true. And it's funny because it was not something I was aware of when I made the first couple videos the very first one was done just by talking straight into the laptop microphone which I just unbelievable to me today. But the the comments about the audio quality was something that made me realize like, Oh, I need to put some time and thought into this if I'm going to make more of these. And so I like I just bought a cheap USB microphone and already that makes it so much better. You know, now I have a bit more professional gear. But so I think like feedback for rough edges like that can be very useful or, yeah, feedback on on people's delivery. So, you know, if you're doing something like we're doing and you're making an explanation video, you want to see how many people seem confused by This in the comments, and that that's an indication that maybe this isn't this isn't going very well. But I think on the flip side of it as well, what's really useful when you're starting out is like positive comments. Do people actually leave comments who seemed to like the thing that you're doing? And if you're getting just no positive feedback at all like that, that's a that's a kind of feedback as well. Like you need to adjust what you're making for the world. And or do something in a very different way to try to catch people's attention. But what I think is, this is a this is a comment that was made to be by Derek of veritasium. Who might be listening right now. Hi, Derek. If you are listening, hey, Derek.
 
Brady 1:09:51 Yeah.
I hope you I hope, what t shirt are you wearing? Derek? Are you wearing those tight jeans? Derek?
 
Grey: But I'm- I'm- I'm very interested also on Reddit when the video gets posted in other sections, so people who don't necessarily subscribe to me on YouTube who- who've never seen one of my videos before, um, they will comment on a video, and that can be interesting to read,--
Grey 1:09:55
He probably is wearing his tight jeans. Yeah. For those of those of you who haven't seen that He's very pretty. He's definitely the prettiest of the educational youtubers i think
 
Brady 1:10:06 Mm.
 
but he always wears like and he always wears the T shirt of your channel when he meets you. Which is a class act but I met him for like a coffee and like he turned out wearing a periodic videos, that is very prophetic. And then like I'm sure when he makes you turn up nice CGP Grey shirt. And that's, that's that's attention to detail. You know,
Grey: --and see, like, someone who's not familiar with my video style,--
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: --you know, what- what might they say. Um, but, uh, what I- what I was- one of the reasons why I- I think the- the- the feedback on feedback thing is- is interesting because it- it changes at different scales. When someone's starting out, when they're making things for the first time on the internet, anonymous feedback from strangers is kind of an amazing thing.
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: Now, you know, people- people can just be like total jerks on the internet, there's no denying that. Um, but- it is, uh, it's difficult in real life to ever get genuine, honest feedback from people you know in your life. Um, so, you know, you have friends and you have families, and- and because you have social obligations to the people in those groups, it's hard to get 100% honest feedback from- from those people in your life.
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: Uh, whereas some random person who's seen whatever you've made on the internet, and who has no connection to you, and isn't even using a real name, there's no reason for them to hold back. You know, they- they have permission to just be really straightforward in their feedback and,--
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: --that can be very, very valuable. Um, and I think if- if you're paying attention to that kind of feedback in the right sort of way, especially in the beginning, you can really try to direct whatever it is you're making in a more positive way.
 
Brady: But how much should you allow yourself to be guided by feedback? I- I mean I- it's the politically correct thing to say, is "I look at the feedback and my audience is really important" and, um, "I want to make what they want and I will shape and tailor what I do to them", and, you know, "I take all their opinions on board because they're- it's really valuable to me".
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: And to an extent, that is true, and only a fool will completely ignore feedback on what the audience is saying, because we do this for the audience, you know, it's- it's a relationship with the audience.
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: But at the same time, you've got to kind of believe in yourself as well, and- and your vision, otherwise you just become some diluted, you know, um, designed by committee piece of generic rubbish.
 
Grey: Yeah.
 
Brady: And- and the example I often use in this respect is in, um, the- the Numberphile videos I make, which are these mathematics videos, often we need to write on something. And for various reasons, which I've outlined in a blog in great detail, and it was very much thought out, I have people write on these pieces of brown paper with a marker.
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: Now, with the first three or four Numberphile videos went up, they- they had a quite a large audience from the start, because I already had an audience from other channels, so I was getting a lot of feedback right from the start. And overwhelmingly, like you wouldn't believe, all the feedback was negative about the brown paper.
 
Grey: Really?
 
Brady: "You've- you've got to get rid of it", "It's rubbish". Like, and- trust- trust me that was what all the comments were about, and it was very strong. But I really believed in using this brown paper.
 
Grey: I gotta say, it's such a trademark of yours now,--
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: --I cannot imagine the Numberphile videos without it.
 
Brady: Ex- exactly, and I- I felt really strongly about it for various reasons that it was a good idea and it would work. And there are still people that don't like it, but they're very much in the minority now, and I rarely hear anything about it. But there are lots of people who really, really love it.
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: They're really into it. And they- they've really adopted it. And that was an example of something where if I was going to go with the feedback and be shaped by it, I would have ditched that brown paper very quickly.
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: Definitely.
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: But I was like, "No, I- I think- I think I'm right here". And, I think if you are starting out and you get shaped by feedback too easily,--
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: --you lose your distinctiveness.
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: And, uh, you know, I think- I think you've got to- you can look at it and take what you want from it, but you can't listen to it too much. You got to be your own man or woman.
 
Grey: Yeah. Um, and- yeah, I wouldn't- I wouldn't be arguing for "follow the feedback entirely". Um,--
 
Brady: Mm.
 
Grey: But, I- I agree with you that- that you're kind of foolish to not pay attention to it, particularly in the beginning. But I think that- that brown paper one is a good example because, um, there- there are things that you have to consider as a creator that might not be obvious to the people watching something.
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: And, I- I don't know if this was your thought process, but I- I might guess that you wanted something that was distinct for, um, a visual look, or you wanted something that- you're dealing with an abstract channel, so that people were writing on a thing, and you could see them doing it. I mean, was that--
 
Brady: Yeah,--
 
Grey: --some part of the--
 
Brady: --yeah, that- that- that's, I mean, there are probably six or seven reasons, but that is a strong one.
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: I want it to be sort of, yeah, something tactile and physical,--
 
Grey: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
 
Brady: --in a- on topics that are, yeah,--
 
Grey: Yeah. So there- there--
 
Brady: --underneath.
 
Grey: Yeah, there's definitely considerations that you have to have as- as the maker of the thing that are--
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: --not obvious to the audience. Um, but I- I think for, uh, you know, for example, um, in some of my earlier videos, there were a lot of comments about how the audio quality was just terrible. Um,--
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: And there is no denying that. Like, that- that was entirely true. And it's funny because it was not something I was aware of when I made the first couple videos, um, the- the very first one was done just by talking straight into the- the laptop microphone, which- I just- is unbelievable to me today,--
 
Brady: [chuckles]
 
Grey: --but, the- the- the comments about the audio quality was something that made me realize like "Ooh, I need to put some time and thought into this if I'm going to make more of these". Uh, and so I- like I just bought a cheap USB microphone and already that makes it so much better. Um, you know, and now I have a bit more professional gear. But, I- so I think, like, feedback for rough edges like that can be very useful or,--
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: --feedback on- on people's delivery, so, you know, if- if you're doing something like we're doing and you're making a- an explanation video, you want to see how many people seem confused by this in the comments. And, that- that's an indication that maybe this isn't- this isn't going very well. Um, but I- I think on the flip side of it as well, what's really useful when you're starting out is, like, positive comments. Do people actually leave comments who seemed to like the thing that you're doing? Uh, and if- if you're getting just no positive feedback at all, right? That- that's a- that's a kind of feedback as well, like, you need to adjust what you're making for the world, uh, and or do something in a very different way--
 
Brady: Mm.
 
Grey: --to try to catch people's attention.
 
Brady: Mm.
 
Grey: Um, but, what- what I think is, um, this is a- this is a comment that was made to me by, uh, Derek of Veritasium,--
 
Brady: Mm.
 
Grey: -who might be listening right now. Hi Derek, if you are listening.
 
Brady: Hey, Derek.
 
Grey: [laughs] Um,--
 
Brady: I hope you- I hope- what- what T-shirt are you wearing, Derek? Are you wearing those tight jeans, Derek?
 
Grey: He probably is wearing his tight jeans.
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: Uh, for those of- those of you who haven't seen Derek, he's very pretty. Um,--
 
Brady: Yeah.
 
Grey: He's definitely the prettiest of the educational YouTubers, I think.
 
Brady: But he always wears, like- and he always wears the T-shirt of your channel when he meets you,--
 
Grey: [laughs]
 
Brady: --which I, which is a class act, like, I- I met him for like a coffee and--
 
Grey: Mm-hmm.
 
Brady: --like, he turned up wearing a Periodic Videos--
 
Grey: That is very impressive.
 
Brady: --of The Professor, and then, like, I'm sure when he meets you, he'll turn up in his CGP Grey shirt, and--
 
Grey: [chuckling]
 
Brady: --that's- that's- that's attention to detail, you know,--
 
Unknown Speaker 1:10:24
Retrieved from "https://podpedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/43849"